Attn non-depressive Warlocks

Discussion in 'Mages' started by Anaogi, Jan 3, 2016.

  1. Lare Active Member

    more incorrect garbage.

    when this is not really right.

    or this


    600 (non enchanters)1k (enchanters) 600 (non enchanters)1k (enchanters)
    When if I was a raiding necro conjy I would be getting as much DPS mode as I could get well over 1k

    and Haste numbers are wrong too.

    I was wondering where all these newb players where running around with 350 cst and I've now found the web site that is promoting this!
    DoomDrake likes this.
  2. Rougez Active Member

    Info for scouts is not much better on that site tbh.
  3. DoomDrake Well-Known Member

    Kxm I was following link and it give me no actual info but starting page ...
    Anyway from my count SCS is really small yield in terms of SDA (at least past mark 300 :)) - like every 10% SCS yield around 0.1-0.2% SDA. So it would be nice to have a table with soft cap on spell casting speed after which spell double cast have really diminished return. Or better say from cloak, neck and belt I get around 55-56% SDA and rest 22% comes from 5% from skills and 17% from excess of 230 spell casting speed (so it should be somewhere soft cap which I passed) - so yes I am guilty for running 330 CST :) but since I don't really need haste I reforge haste into POT and not CST. So here is question - what is the better get +0.5% SDA increase from 2 runes +30% spell casting speed or get 14%CB and 10% CC increase (bearing in mind that CB at 1150 and CC at 1250)?
    Some inputs regard balancing PoT/CB/AM would be useful as well - for example I still have very little clue what better get (say 1270 crit chance/ 1150CB/1306POT) 32%CB rune or 25%PoT (yeah both are better but which one yield more DPS?)
  4. Lare Active Member

    ok where on this planet did I say reforge your casting speed into pot? didn't I say reforge into AB? u want 100k are u there yet?

    Suggest going Pow runes or dps mod runes (with shoulders as SDA unless you have a cloak jewel) Suggest using your white adornments to up your CST

    Sitting around 200 CST prior to group or raid buffs. don't over think SDA!

    If you want to increase your SDA get the Wrist comes from the solo or heroic instances.

    It's far easier to get pot than CB and AB,
  5. Azian Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately, I think he is only following the advice that fit his preconceived ideas of how to gear. He doesn't seem to want to hear that putting points into auto attack stats will increase his overall dps. He doesn't seem to want to hear that not having over 200 casting speed is a good thing because of how much going over that level wastes for other more valuable stats. Maybe I'm misjudging but that's what I'm getting out of your exchanges anyway.

    I did find a couple items of my own to change my reforging on to get to 88k ABM after reading your suggested 100k. So, at this point every piece of gear I'm wearing has ability mod either as a base stat or that I've reforged into. That's as high as I'll get without different/better gear and infusing which I've done very little of so far. (I hate "wasting" infusers on entry level gear that I'm likely to swap out at first chance).

    My biggest struggle on the lock (which I don't play enough to really get a pattern on) is managing something close to decent single target dps. Sure, AE is fine but avoiding being terrible on a single target is not coming smoothly to me so far in ToT. This is particularly true on shorter fights.
    MrWashek likes this.
  6. Lare Active Member

    Its always going to be a balance and the skill is trying to get the most of what you can reforge and where to put it. I also agree with you Azain why we don't bother reforging into pot is that it gives less dps return at present say over reforging into range dps skills.

    Single target really is all about increments and our temp buffs sadly when they are down we are going to struggle always been the case so its about managing the encounters of each heroic zone, know when you can unload and have enough time for named single target fights etc.

    Are you struggling when your increments and temps are up?
  7. Azian Well-Known Member

    Honestly I'm just salty about running in KP contested recently and we were constantly moving and killing groups both large and small and there never seemed to be a time I could line up my temps. I've mostly been playing my brig lately and I can hit hard regardless of how much lead in time the fight allows. Some of that is just my familiarity with the brig though. The lock just felt like you have to have Mars in alignment with Jupiter and the moon about to eclipse and the tide to be out and then...the mob is dead before you launch a big one! :) All in all, I just need to be better and by that I mean practice and familiarity. Basically, what you said about managing encounters and when you can unload. I don't have that feel right yet.
  8. Mandoblast Active Member

    Much of a warlocks DPS comes from big spike damage during an FC chain, but you are 100% correct that having a "feel" for when and how to unleash the power is the key. Knowing the fights is also a big part of it. If I am in the contested or a heroic zone, I tend to build increments on trash saving my big hits for the named. A few debuffs and hit my temps on the named, and let it go. Then start to build again. Rinse and repeat. I do the same in raid zones but the trash has a lot more HP so I can usually run through a few FC AOE cycles and still have full increments by the time we hit a named.

    I took about 4 years off after DoV and came back at the end of ToV. So, been playing again for a shade over a year now and I am still getting back into the feel. Just keep working on the class and it will come. I am still getting better and I know I need more practice and gear but I can drop the hammer when I need too.

    I also use brew of readiness. This will reset all my temps if I need to have them up for a named fight. Handy and I really only use them in raids.
  9. DoomDrake Well-Known Member

    No I am not at 100k yet :) but I am on my way :) - at 75K from 62K. Btw which war runes aside of bolstered and wind of obol you recommend? I seen one that add 32 to CB (Magnitude or something like that) - what else? By a chance do you remember wrist with SDA name? - I assume it comes from "uplifting fury" effect? In which instance it drops? (I used to for months all AS but bar but never seen such wrist piece drops)
  10. Lare Active Member

    completely agree.

    very expensive way to do it but sometimes required!

    how much of the 350 did you reforge into pot with can I suggested undoing that and reforging it to ab. basically trying to get as much ab as you can,
  11. DoomDrake Well-Known Member

    I did not reforge spell casting speed :) - I reforged Haste - its waste above 200 anyway.. Problem as I already told - I do not have an option to reforge intp AMOD (or I would do it in the blink of eye :() - only few pieces of gear offers that choice all those that did offered that choice been reforged on AMOD (it yield around 4-4.5k AMOD total).
    I been doing (as you suggested) some heroic runs (god bless there are actually groups that run with bunch AoE nukers ... warlock-wizard-necro-dirge-defier-sk) ... updated my arms to Uzu sleeves and got few more fable - alas would not really use them - only situational because all of them low on AMOD. I actually found in my stash that wrist piece you have mentioned .. not really sure if I like it - Soulthrist effect - upon activation -20% health, on every spell chance take -15% health damage and all this crap for merely 24% SDA?
    I think I got good impression which war runes to buy ... btw what your opinion about bolstered stamina? Magnitude apparently no brainers with Winds of Obol. Other thing I can't grasp - why every guide recommend go after % DPS runes? - are they affect spell damage as well?
  12. Lare Active Member

    LMAO. As I have stated before you can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink!

    OK let me explain in detail.

    Different stats give better reforge returns and casting speed gives you the better returns than what HST gives you. In fact its one of the best to reforge!.

    You got excited when you increased you AB and other stuff as you saw some increase well its your choice but in the end moving to what I am suggesting is going to increase your dps more. Thing is if you keep diluting what we are suggesting your dps will always be meh!!!

    Why you can't see the benefits of wand dps is you really only been doing AS. Did you missed my comment that my wand dps can one shot trash mobs in these zones?

    ah got it

    HST, AE Auto and DPS mod all effect wand damage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. So having more than 200 HST gives your wand flurry damage.
    What seems to be going backwards in dps will improve once you start putting on some of the purple dps war runes that add AE Auto and flurry. Why I still run the old cloak & belts over my new class cloak?

    In heroic zones your wand dps actually starts making a difference if you spec that way its a matter of going all in to see the change. Sure there is a point when you first start that it doesn't and I guess you are seeing this atm.

    Relying on HPs and being able to take a hit in AS zones over learning actually how to gear your lock to do damage is clouding your gear choices! Being a lock is a glass cannon, Prob the reason why you don't like the SDA wrist. 24 SDA is massive over a little hps and some damage that gets healed by us building increments. This also frees up alot of Casting speed you can reforge into ab.

    When your in a heroic group its the job of the tank to hold agro and the job of the healer to heal you, your job is to make everything dead! Fastest way to clear a zone is to blow it up!

    The difference between a good lock and a very good lock is the very good ones worked out long ago how to pull agro fast learned to live while doing it and parsing numbers others can't. i.e learn how to drop your load and live on the pull :) .

    The best why to make sure you don't get hit is to kill it before it gets there.

    Why I run with a pally merc over an SK merc! its a no brainer once you get it.

    So things like Screams of battle and wild swings runes as well as Winds and the CB one.
  13. Lare Active Member

    some zones we are just not going to shine given that FC has changed we are going to struggle more and more as others increase in CB. But the battle is to do your best each time and get better with building increments.
  14. Azian Well-Known Member

    I hate to tell you this because I was too late to let you know in game but you sold the item tonight that would come close to fitting your description above. Do you realize that the Sacrificial Staff has the same Early Advantage proc as Lacerator? People don't want Lacerator because of it's uber melee damage rating. They drop 100k plat on it because of the proc. You just sold that proc.

    I'd actually intended to mention that exact item in this thread to respond to the comment of yours I quoted above but got distracted. Now, ideally you'd actually get Lacerator and then equip another proc item in your off-hand but I'm gathering that most of your journey may be done solo. I'd recommend that you farm District of Ash again until you get another Staff to drop and then equip it on the spot.
  15. Lare Active Member

    sad but true
  16. DoomDrake Well-Known Member

    Thank you guys for valuable input. I was perhaps to clouded by Morgim bible of warlock. And if my memory serve me well wand DPS accounts of merely 10% of warlock total output?. I have that staff from city of ash (I sold ... actually gave one away to nice necro girl last night:)).. most notably equipping it causing loosing me 6k AMOD (loosing almost 10% of AMOD for 8M proc is it worth it?). I am speced in AA for doublecast not for melee.
    I am not entirely min-max nazzy but trying to do reasonable optimization.
    Major chunk or my damage comes
    Unda, PB, TA/CD, Eci, Chains, TClap, Apoc/Rift (worth casting with 180 increments) - this is bulk of damage
    Acid, Pyre - just fillers, Dark Syph and Cata for fast increment built occasional Blast of Devastation for PBAoE fights
    From what read and seen on other parses (perhaps I am mistaken) - wands accounts for merely 10% of damage (probably as much as Gift/Darkness/Overflow/Damnation). That's why I am grasping to comprehend how couple % of flurries any better then extra % of double cast? . On other hand with new version of Molten Detonation (1.7M PBAoE) I might say forge lacerator and just go with 3 Molten Detonation procs items
  17. Mandoblast Active Member

    Look at Melee damage this way: Your wand is at ranged in heroic and raid fights and gives you "FREE" damage since you do NOT have to interrupt your spell casting to get this damage. The Early Advantage proc is crazy powerful and adds to this "FREE" damage that is not related to your wand damage but the proc is "FREE". Wand damage is ALWAYS in the top 3 of my parse. The EA proc is from spell damage and the Wand Damage is from your melee stats. You might have lost some AB but the damage from the proc (which by the way hits for more than the mentioned 8.7m) is a big part of the parse. On a 3m fight in raid last night my wand damage was 14% of my parse with a high hit of over 14m. It matters.

    Acid and Pyre are NOT Fillers and should be running at ALL times. High priority spells are T-Clap (inside 15m for max damage), PB, Chains, DA (when up), Gift (keep this running). FC chain spells previously mentioned when max increments. Some filler spells are Flames of Velious, Aura, Encase, Distortion. Situtational spells are Blast of Dev and Acid Storm. Some warlocks dont think about debuffs but I keep Vacuum Field running at all times.

    All of this information really only becomes relevant in Heroic (to a lesser extent) and Raids (to the greater extent). It really doest matter what you do in Adv Solo zones since we can facerole them.
    DoomDrake likes this.
  18. Lare Active Member

    ok I just spent an hour writing you a reply as to why your thinking is so wrong even suggested you actually go look up Mogrims gear on EQu2 and see that he is reforging his cloth casting speed into ab and so on. but I just deleted it.

    talking about it isn't going to help you unless we talk actual DPS, further not knowing the benifits of having an illy in your grp kinda screws all your 350 casting speed when you time FC rotation with TW as its 100% SDA.

    So it comes down to the scale of DPS you do compared to what others can do with the same gear just reforged differently.

    You said you did a few Pugs recently what sort of parses have you been doing on the trash big aoe fights and your ST fights and did you have an illy in grp?

    Im assuming you use ACT I guess.
  19. Lare Active Member

    Manoblast if hes just doing AS the loss of that much AB is going to hurt his FC rotation because AS as you say dies like butter the proc might not even go off! He is basing how to gear his toon on how he rolls in AS zones which is going to give him results that don't really hold true for Heroic, raid or to show him how much more dps he could do if he actually did what we suggest.

    Sadly I transfered my 5th lock off that server only recently with the free move otherwise I would have logged him in and showed him the difference.

    He really doesn't get the scale of things yet especially when he says what wand dps is only 10% of the parse but when your doing 280m dps parses that's a lot to loose but when hes doing like 8m dps 800k dps is nothing!
  20. MrWashek Member

    Doublecast is offtopic with current gear, even at 200% casting speed, TW is just about proc increase at this state of the spell. For the weaker magi it is important because Unda is our major dps ability and it benefits from doublecast over 100% but locks and wizards do not depend on it.