Attn non-depressive Warlocks

Discussion in 'Mages' started by Anaogi, Jan 3, 2016.

  1. Anaogi Well-Known Member

    Hey there. Since warlocks are not quite as useless as originally feared, I'm trying to work my way up to a competent level of DPS for heroics. The problem is, I feel utterly lost in the modern function of the class, can maybe make 10mil in Heroics, and the existing literature is a touch outdated and ill-kept *cough*Mogrim*cough*.

    So. Any useful insights on how to get the most out of this class? (And anyone who says "betray" or "delete" will be sent a random collection of angry badgers and cassowaries.)
    daicia and Ajetor like this.
  2. Entropy Well-Known Member

    Warlocks are fine; we just have some real competition from predators (mostly on single target fights) instead of being undisputed #1. And you know what? We probably shouldn't be king of AE and also king of single target. So don't despair, just get geared up. With the multiplicative nature of CB*POT*INT, you'll see nice gains as you get better gear. It's easy to softcap your autoattack stats these days, but don't go overboard focusing on bonus things like flurry if it's at the expense of huge POT/CB alternative gains (i.e. if you have the 4-combine heroic cloak and belt from last xpac, and you can get a new fabled heroic cloak and belt, get the new one, infuse it up, and profit.)

    As far as cast order, that's dependent on the type of encounter. Look at recent warlock parses (eq2flames thread hasn't been updated in awhile, but it's not terribly out of date) and see what type of spells are at the top. You can also get an efficiency calculator to work it out manually.
  3. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

    I'm raising up a baby warlock at the moment myself. She's 93 right now, and mostly MOLO, so keep that in mind.

    (1) TOT Class Optimization is an extremely helpful article on where your stats should be by archetype and playstyle. It discusses stats, and makes general suggestions for adornments.

    (2) Dragon's Armory should be your next step. You will need to allow external sites to see your data (an option in your character window somewhere). This page shows you what you've got in detail, It highlights soft and hard caps. Hovering over any stat explains the stat and its caps.
    • I generally go to the reforger, restore all gear, then camp to myself. That camping step forces the game to write your data out.
    • Look at what stats you have in this "primordial" condition. Compare with the recommendations from Step 1, above. Some stats reforge really well, others reforge very poorly. I usually stand at the reforger and experiment to see where the "best buys" in reforging could occur. And I take notes! I keep a Notepad window open onscreen through the whole process.
    • Identify where you have too much of a given stat. You will want to concentrate on lowering that stat and reforging to what you need most.
    (3) EQ2U is the final destination. Look up your character. One of those tabs says "Adorn" and has a pic of a calculator. Click that. Or you can go direct to Dethdlr's Adornment Calculator. This is where you'll figure out what adorns you need/want, and at the end the calculator will tell you everything you will need in order to get those adorns purchased or crafted.
    • You can choose whether to see the adornments by Value (+15 Casting Speed (S)) or by Name (Incandescent Adornment of Swift Casting (Superior)). I switch back and forth as needed.
    • I'd recommend starting with the Class Optimization guide in Step 1 and see how the suggested adornments and war runes fit what you have, and what you think you'll need.
    • Keep in mind the "stat gaps" revealed at Dragon's Armory in Step 2. You can make up for some stats by choosing the right adornments.
    (4) AA Build. For this, I suggest asking in general chat "who is the best warlock on this server?" Hopefully, this should get you a couple of names. Try looking them up at EQ2U (or look at *cough*Mogrim*cough*or*Jokirr*cough*): just note that not everybody makes their build visible.
    • You can ask experienced warlocks for advice. Mogrim is keeping his Warlock School thread up-to-date on Flames (he's showing his contact info on Maj'Dul)
    • High-end raiders are going to have goodies on their gear that a lot of us just can't match, so focus on the person's AA choices (you can actually download their AA spec and try it for yourself).
    • Take a look at what adornments they are using. Again, some may not be readily available to you, but they can give you some ideas.
    (5) Cast Order. Once upon a time, there was an easy-to use cast order generator online that has long since disappeared. Currently, the only guide to calculating cast order of which I am aware is Koko's Spreadsheets and User's Manuals. (I should note that I am apparently too inept to get this working for my toons thus far...)
    • Old school cast order can be figured out by using guild hall dummies and Advanced Combat Tracker. You fight a bunch of dummies using ACT with your current cast order. Note the average DPS for each. Now swap your cast order around some, test again with ACT. Continue until you have maxxed your DPS as well as you can.
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  4. Entropy Well-Known Member

    OP, I just checked your eq2u profile to get a gear check, and yeah, you're in mostly legendary gear and (rightly so) almost none of it is plat-infused. Effects like Amplifying aren't great in heroics or PUGs because they don't have a high upside potential. You're also missing some other fairly easy to acquire gear that could boost your raw DPS potential.

    With that said, you also probably need some work on your cast order. Set up a handful of epic training dummies, turn them immortal, and play around until you improve. (Do the same for a single target dummy as well!)

    Can you link a screenshot of your All Outgoing damage from ACT so we can look at where your spells fall out? Preferably a zonewide, and also a few select longer encounters.
  5. Anaogi Well-Known Member

    Here's my best dummy of the set. This is with vigor charm not active, just to get a baseline.



    I have reworked my spec somewhat, what you see on eq2u is current. Vigor charm was not active this run. Cast order was based off an earlier version of Mogrim's work.
  6. Entropy Well-Known Member

    You want the "All Outgoing" tab, not the ones you linked. It's also reverse-sorted so we can't see what skills are at the top of your parse. :) Sort descending by EncDPS.
  7. Anaogi Well-Known Member

    OK, here goes.

  8. Lare Active Member

    Ok the good news after looking at your gear and your parse its not the class but you!

    There is a lot of stuff you are doing wrong.

    So it can be fixed. :)

    OK you really do need to read Mogrims post sure some of it is outdated but the basic still hold true.

    The locks still main stats are still CB POT and A mod and int. Your amod is very low and needs to be closer to 100k if not more. You don't need 297 CST that's over kill so reforge that. Your lack of using white adornments is hurting you. Just on your weapons alone your loosing cb or pot whites.

    Your charms are woeful and actually screw you wand dps The Forge Fire Flask dazes you which mean stops ur auto attack for 30 seconds. EV might give you some pot but there are better charms out there.

    You should be aiming for around 600 dps mod 100 AoE auto and as much hst you can get without screwing to much with your amod.

    I prefer the green adornments that give SWD and amod over the double cast.

    Look for the upgraded salvo charm and the Hand of thule upgrade or other charms over the EV charm.

    Would suggesting aiming for the pot cb purple adorns for you cloth gear. Prob not going to get a jewel.

    Have you clicked on your SDA wrist as your SDA seems not to add up to what gear you have


    Aura, Flames of velious are not even on my hot bard, also I noticed your toxic assault was very low this is your big boom spell that needs increments to build that allows you to spike your dps. You only cast it once on a 2.52m fight not good.

    I would not cast my neatherlord on a training dummy not that great for ST.

    Also cure of darkness only good for AoE spells even then its not that great.

    Your cast order should focus between building increments and your bigger nuke spells and using your temp buffs to effect your dps. So a good chunk of spells are fillers spells between your bigger nukes and your temp pot buff's etc? (for ST and well the AOE roatation is a no brainer)

    That's the key to DPS on the lock atm I don't think you are doing that.

    Anyway just my 2 cent worth
  9. Eles Well-Known Member

    so, people should undelete their warlock? I do believe Wizards needs some love too
  10. Mandoblast Active Member

    Aura is a good spell (doesn't build increments) that is quick casting and free damage.

    Netherlord is a good spell to use for building increments as well as Dark Infestation (pets)

    There are multiple ways to build melee stats. I would go with either Power runes (CB and Pot) or the DPS runes if you have the CB and Pot.

    You should focus on how to build increments and discharge them for maximum damage. Warlocks are about building stacks and spike damage.

    Also, use Gift and Eternal damnation (Eternal on AE fights). Gift is fast casting, last a long time, and is great damage.

    Some gear choices should be replaced.
  11. Anaogi Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the tips, folks! Lare put it best, if it's me, there's hope, 'cause I can be retrained :D

    Looks like I've got work to do...
  12. Lare Active Member

    Why Aura is meh!

    The fact that it doesn't build increments its not free DPS, takes .5 sec to cast add the time it takes for you to mouse over it then another spell and then add server lag, so on a long ST fight casting it actually reduces the time you get to max increments each rotation and that accumulates over time.

    In Heroic instances most fights casting it when things die so fast is meh too.

    Learning to build increments in the fastest way possible and timing it with temp buffs is the go!
  13. Anaogi Well-Known Member

    OK, working my way through...why is a sorcy speccing so much like a scout? Since when was autoattack so dominant for non-chanter casters? I feel like I missed something here.
  14. Lare Active Member

    Its worse if your a necro!

    Its more about maximizing your dps and wand damage adds enough to worry about it.
  15. Azian Well-Known Member

    I'm no warlock expert but do enjoy dragging mine about from time to time. In my case I'm out of things to reforge into that are more casterish. Even so, I'm at 203 cast speed, 100 reuse, 89 recovery (suppose I could push that to 100 even though it's often over cap in groups), and 85k ab mod. Oh, I'm also at 97.5ish double cast when using the soulsiphon wrist. I'd like to get a bit more mod but again, I'm out of reforge items I can do that with.

    Anyway, despite the above casting figures, I'm still over 600 dps mod, 300 attack speed, 200 ma, 24 accuracy and even almost 40 flurry (lol). I'd love to dump 100+ attack speed and 80 ma but what remains on my gear won't allow it. (Those items already have ab mod so I can't reforge into more of it).

    I tend to view hitting the soft caps on melee stats as pretty much a baseline now on all my characters and classes. My scouts go well over those soft caps for dps mod and attack speed. The only ones that can be a struggle to hit soft caps on are my tanks. All the rest I easily hit those figures with room to spare on their "real" stats in most cases.

    Oh, just to clarify, my warlock is wearing gear that is mastercrafted, quested or from AS zones along with a couple heroic items thrown in. All readily available items.
  16. CoLD MeTaL Well-Known Member

    I see people say 100k AM all the time, yet Dragon's Armory tells me that only 1-2 spell might benefit from over 50k (Plaguebringer / Dark Aggravation) IF DA is even affected by AMod.

    Currently mine is at 48k which is all but those 2 spells capped acc. to DA.

    Why so high?
  17. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

    Ability Mod should be half your biggest hit.
  18. Sylke Well-Known Member

    Dragon's Armory doesn't take into account temp buffs and the increased Potency from Prestige (during combat), etc. It's not unusual for your Potency to, at least, double during combat.
    Kraeref likes this.
  19. Mandoblast Active Member

    Off spike (when my temps are not up) in raids I hit around 2k potency. I have spiked as high as 5300pot during a FC rotation during raids. Spells that 100k AB would be useful on:

    1. PB
    2. Chains
    3. Toxic
    4. Caustic
    5. Rift
    6. Apoc (myth on)
    7. Dark Aggravation

    Those are just off the top of my head. I would imagine that Flames of Velious, Distortion, Encase, Absolution.

    Push the AB and keep the melee stats. Every bit helps.

    As soon as I finally get the Lacerator to drop, my AB will be pushing that 100k......
  20. DoomDrake Well-Known Member

    Well ... what is biggest hit? if we are talking about max value of base damage then AM certainly should go above 100k (PB with very basic gear and not fully adornment clock around 260k or so - thus 130k AM should do a trick)
    I have rather different problem (?) - why people targeting DPS mode? I do understand that range autoattack will contribute somewhat into the total DPS but ... it seems to be a lot more logical built up SDA (80%+ easy for everyone and with simple bracer from Stigian it can be brought to 100% for the cost 37.5POT/CB. Another thing gear that work only in group/raid environment ... Say golden ring of combat ... on paper nice ring 25-96% for both POT/CB .... but here rings with uplifting power 37.5POT/CB - so unless you duo with someone who have gold ring or even trio rings are better...Same goes with sing line ring reward - that one even worst - it relay on proc...Now bracers I still have to find something better when "firm stand" effect ... CB climb in matter of minute up to 200+ points (depending on patience). I do hesitate to replace those with POT 72-96... Charms ... again I'd use different for grouping (more offensive) but for solo? not so many effect I want to have - I do have 350k ward (and it is good for life saving) I have bunch healing charms from HOT 75k/s and heal 125k to refreshing ward 70k/second/12second and last stand one (85% damage reduction). Weapon ... bleh ... I feel that everyone and where dogs going to use lacerator... all other effects for warlock well ... let see
    I have soul trasher - 2.4M mental damage (but +1 to hate position every time it proc), Currently I am using blackanvil for sole reason it single target proc 1.2M, also where Neural Lash (539k/encounter) and one proc that I hate most - molten detonation - PBAoE for 339k - is anything else out? I don't know - I seen anguish proc (weak mental DOT).
    So basically if someone have gazzilion of plat to burn onto war runes - more power to them otherwise I still stuck with about 1250k on CC/CB/PoT 65k AM and about 80 SDA and not really see much space for improvement for molo (in group thou I can probably get 100-200 into PoT/CB just from amplifiers). Do I happy with my DPS now ... I guess so .... most AS bosses I can 1 attack - kill (which mean if I have my 180 increments - I can fire my FC chain from short enough distance to hit target with insta cast Rift/Apoc within chain starting chain with PB and ending with TA