Arrow Consumption Update

Discussion in 'Ranger' started by ARCHIVED-Rothgar, Jan 31, 2007.

  1. ARCHIVED-Rothgar Guest

    This has been a hot topic for awhile and I'm pleased to say that GU32 will bring some nice changes. Combat arts will no longer consume ammo with the next live update. Only your auto-attack will use arrows.

    Arrow damage is also being looked at and balanced so there will be a benefit to using better arrows. Summoned arrows will provide the lowest damage, with vendor bought arrows being slightly better. Crafted arrows will give the best dps, and among the three types of crafted arrows, each one will enhance either range, accuracy or damage. Woodworkers will see an increase in arrow yield for each recipe which will bring the price of crafted arrows down. This in combination with them only being used for auto-attack should make it very feasible to use crafted arrows if you want to maximize your dps. Keep in mind this will only affect the damage amounts on auto-attacks and not on combat arts. CA damage will still be affected by your stats and the tier of your bow.

    If you have any questions or concerns about this change, I'll try to help.
  2. ARCHIVED-Zendi_Perma Guest

    Thanks for the update, Rothgar. Where will the Ichorstrand and Bazkul arrows fit on this continuum? On the top I hope?
  3. ARCHIVED-interstellarmatter Guest

    Yay! I know that I'm new to the Ranger community only lvl 47 so far but I'm excited for the change :)
  4. ARCHIVED-Prandtl Guest

    Any rangers on test? Let us know how the different grades of arrow damage. If summoned is at the lower end, I would like to know how much DPS I am giving up in order to not have to pay for my arrows....
  5. ARCHIVED-Terrak Guest

    Speaking as a Ranger and a Woodworker... Uh, you totally rock! Seriously, kudos on this change. I'm looking forward to it!
  6. ARCHIVED-Malchore Guest

    I think I may just have to create a newbie Ranger/Woodworker on test and see how it goes.
  7. ARCHIVED-Rothgar Guest

    Don't hold me to this, as GU32 is still a month away. But it looks like summoned arrows will only see a decrease of about 6% on auto-attack only. Auto-attack does not make up a large part of our dps according to the parses I've done, so overall I think this will be fine. Especially considering that the crafted arrows will give a bigger dps boost.

    The summoned arrows from Bazkul and Ichorstrand are a higher tier than crafted arrows. So they will definately do more damage than the standard crafted arrows, but I'm not sure how they will compare to the "rounded" arrows that will have a damage bonus on top of the tier. Its possible if the damage bonus is high enough on rounded arrows that they may do as much damage as the higher tier summoned arrows with no damage bonus. All of these stats haven't come out of the wash yet, so we'll just have to see as it gets close to the end of February.

    The plan is to also modify the examine window so you'll be able to see what effects certain ammo will have on your attacks.
  8. ARCHIVED-Ibunubi Guest

    Very nice, Rothgar.
  9. ARCHIVED-Jayad Guest

    "Auto-attack does not make up a large part of our dps according to the parses I've done, so overall I think this will be fine."
    Errr... pretty sure a raiding ranger with a proper bow, lvl 70 legendary ammo, and buffs does at least 40% of their dps from auto-attack.
  10. ARCHIVED-Prandtl Guest

    Even without the uber bows, autoattack makes up anywhere between 25% and 40% of my damage on a zonewide parse.
  11. ARCHIVED-Rothgar Guest

    So if you have lvl 70 legendary ammo why do you care about the dps decrease of Makeshift Adamantine?
  12. ARCHIVED-Jayad Guest

    I don't, just saying, the amount of DPS from auto-attack varies a lot. :) It can be a very large part of the DPS.
  13. ARCHIVED-valkyrja Guest

    Will these changes also effect thrown ammo?
  14. ARCHIVED-Haruk Guest

    Awesome, thanks a lot roth. Really looking forward to this update:smileyhappy:
  15. ARCHIVED-pseudocide Guest

    great news, now maybe rangers without a DT bow can compete
  16. ARCHIVED-LevLo Guest

    Cause it's generally a good idea to care about all aspects of your class, not just the ones you yourself do not have problems with due to an item that will or will not be out of date with further expansions..

    Anyways, to clear something up, AA is a big part of the rangers dps so thats a bit of miscalculation.. of course this depends alot on what bow you got, but it is also alot about ranger mechanics (crits, procs etc.)

    In any way.. with the crafted arrow changes it will most likely be worth buying arrows over semi afk summoning arrows, as the time to summon them would greatly overgo the time it would take to make the money spent on arrows. I am not saying I am overly happy, as there is still some issues around it, but this is a big improvement and I think we should all be thankful for this bone.

    so now, Yes you will most likely be required to buy arrows to stay on top of your game, then again this will give you an increase in dps, and it will take down cost vs time.. cause as we know time is money.

    Still rather unfair that we have to spend plats to do our main job, but this is a good compromise.. not only did we get what many thought of a good solution to our consumption rate (CAs not using arrows), but also did we see an increase in arrows per recipe in effect a lower arrow price. Together it snowballs to quite alot more than you think right away.

    Auto attack still does use about 150 arrows in 10minutes depending on weapon delay and haste, but a medium hasted ranger with a long bow thats about 4seconds and 150arrows in 10 minutes.

    I really think that woodworkers should get an extra bone, give them 500 arrows or 5 stacks per recipe (495), and up the fuel requirement equally.. In my opinion this would not really change your current setup .. except for the fact that it would be less time consuming to make arrows. Of course raw requirements should be upped some as well to compensate.

    the reason I say this is that currently no woodworker will want to make arrows because it takes too much time with too little gain. and fact is with the current changes this has not changed.. Except for the fact that arrows will be consumed slower. I merely put this up as an suggestion to give woodworkers a reason to bother to make arrows for rangers and still make money on it.

    Other than that I think it's great and I am really happy with the changes.
  17. ARCHIVED-valkyrja Guest

    I'm following this arrow info as a woodworker, not a Ranger. And I think the changes they are going to do to arrow crafting is great. First off, I can now actually make a profit on arrows, as they will have a measurable impact on performance. If I can get a whole stack of arrows out per combine, I'm excited to make them.

    You also have to consider that arrow consumption is going to drastically decrease, so woodworkers won't have to burn out 4000 arrows a day to keep up with demand.
  18. ARCHIVED-Reilena Guest

    I am pretty excited about this.. a little bummed that the summoned arrows will be less.. but.. i dont leave much down time for autoattack durring raid fights anyways. This is going to lower my costs by probably 5-6 plat a week... I've been spending about 1.5 plat a raid on arrows.

    *hugs SOE*
  19. ARCHIVED-Zendi_Perma Guest

    Hey Rothgar, you might want to double-check that. My autoattack ranges from 40 up to 50% of my zonewide raid parse. It was lower with legendary bow, but I don't think I ever saw it below 30+%.
  20. ARCHIVED-Anaun Guest

    First, let me state how much I appreciate that this is finally being addressed. Clearly, you have listened to your customers, and are putting a lot of effort into making the situation better. Thank you.
    However, I find that "pierce" is usually 30-40% of my damage on parses, even if I spam CA's and carefully time my damage buffs prior to quicker CA's. Unless "pierce" also includes CA damage (and I doubt it does based on the way ACT breaks out individual CA damage,) I would consider that to be a rather large part of my dps. Maybe I am doing something wrong... care to show a few of those parses for comparison? :smileyhappy:
    Despite removing arrow consumption from CA's, I will have to pay for better arrows to maintain the exact DPS I am delivering today. (Using stockpiled reclaimed arrows will provide lower DPS for auto-attack, and therefore a lower overall sum for DPS.) That is an INCREASE, not a DECREASE, in actual cost to maintain the current status quo for ranged dps.
    Removing arrow consumption from CA's is awesome. It is a huge improvement. But, please leave current arrows as they are, and put the new (and hopefully abundant) crafted arrows somewhere between vendor/reclaimed arrows and T8 summoned/blessed/dropped arrows.
    Edit: While you're making fixes, can you please have Point Blank Shot Arrow Rip recover arrows at the same tier as reclaimed? I am really starting to hate those [see, I can control my language] Indium arrows. :smileytongue:

    Message Edited by jb11740 on 02-01-2007 06:22 AM

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