An Open Dialogue Regarding Forum Moderation

Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by RadarX, Apr 10, 2015.

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  1. Liav Well-Known Member

    Yeah, reddit and 4chins get a bad rap for sure. The exact same things that can be said negatively about either site can be said about the internet as a whole. Too much Fox News I guess. Or in this case, CNN.

    [IMG]
  2. RadarX Community Manager


    Typically we do a few temporary suspensions and these are almost always done after a few actions. You have to do something pretty severe to get a suspension out of the gate. A permanent suspension usually comes after a number of temporary ones.
    Feara likes this.
  3. Azian Well-Known Member

    I agree with your comments regarding litigation but as someone who has never enjoyed the luxury of a ban/suspension still agree with Laiina that the suggestion was a terrible idea.

    I also wholeheartedly agree with you here...

    StoneAch likes this.
  4. RadarX Community Manager


    The accounts you are posting from are technically owned by us, so no I don't think legal action is possible but I won't speak for our legal team.

    The question in this becomes what do we gain by this?
    Feara likes this.
  5. Ishtara Well-Known Member

    To Radar X: I know we as a community might seem negative or aggressive about the changes, but I think sometimes the company forgets that we are well intended however abrasive it may seem. We (the customers) want the game/DBG to succeed more than anyone! We complain because we want improvements that will contribute to the growth and longevity of the game, but moderation is far too trigger happy and a lot of people feel their voices are being ignored or suppressed. As I recall from a post you made on Reddit, you stated that even on a good day the General Discussion forum may not have more than 25 active threads. I don't think the lessening number of threads is due to lack of interest, but rather due to a combination of heavy handed moderation, and a lack of help with long standing issues that never get fixed if they are at best, even acknowledged.

    With regards to Reddit, I personally don't mind as long as it is in addition to use of the official forums. If done in conjunction with the existing forum, I think it could be a great resource for the game and possibly (if done properly) win over some new players. So many things have changed or been added or subtracted /coughpvpfourmcough that quite frankly you are making us crazy. Changes should be gradual and with notice! If the city is going to raze my house to the ground to build a highway over it, I should like to know that before it happens, wouldn't you? A lot of people consider this game to be an entertainment investment and have emotional attachments to it, such as any investment where time and $$ are involved. It is only natural that we are worried about it's future when it changes hands, or when large decisions are made that effect our game play. So instead of chasing us around with a stick.. renew our confidence? ;)
    Merriel, Thalador, StoneAch and 4 others like this.
  6. Rhvaurek Member

    Hahah yeah Fox News.....HACKERS ON STEROIDS

    anyway yeah back on topic, like i said before people shouldn't have to use third party site to post bug reports of all things be it 4chan, Reddit or MySpace. That should be a thing for the official forums only, now and forever until the game shuts down.
    Merriel likes this.
  7. RadarX Community Manager


    The WAR third party site is something that comes up from time to time for sure. I think this is a little different given no individual owns Reddit. Sure you could cite the WoW example where the subreddit was locked for a few days but I've never seen another instance of that.
  8. Wanderingbat Active Member


    But it does. She was ABSOLUTELY correct in her assumption. While you may be thinking this is good because it lets us know what happened and why, the person it happened to may be totally and completely humiliated by the outing. Especially if that outing was an embarrassment to begin with and completely deserved.
    Merriel, Feara and Strings like this.
  9. Vainamoinen Well-Known Member

    Many people dislike change because it is change. Not because of some sort of substantive, objective measure but because it is different from what they are used to.

    This sort of reaction to change is extremely outdated, however. We live in a world of nearly constant change that has some sort of direct impact on us. Not being able to adapt on the fly (some organizations like to refer to this as being "nimble" or "agile", but buzzwords make me puke) is a huge detriment nowadays. Knee-jerk reactions are often unfounded. When change fails, it is often because it has been undermined.

    As for the moderation on these forums, it needs to be much more consistent and transparent. People need to know what to change before they can change. There is always an element of arbitrariness to moderation, but the less of it the better. I think that RadarX and the whole team could benefit from looking at how to change the approach to moderation here in order to benefit themselves and the community.
    Merriel and Wanderingbat like this.
  10. Bashem Well-Known Member

    And say it was me that was banned how would I find out what the severity of it was and what are my options if any to appeal my ban or talk to someone like yourself about it?
    Feara likes this.
  11. Charlice Well-Known Member

    Why say players are always given warning? They are not. I know this first hand. Sometimes yes. But always? lol please.

    It always amuses me though, that you bother sending a forum mail after the player has been banned. Shame you can't read it once you're banned don't you think? You have our email addresses, maybe common sense would tell you to send correspondence there?

    Also I find the decision to try Reddit ridiculous. Why not just kick start EQ2 Flames? At least Flames had some moderation.
    I had a look at Reddit, I now understand why my work has it banned. It seems like a breeding ground for trolls to me.

    Seriously why on earth would you have a link to EQ2 Flames in the side bar? I notice EQ2 Wire isn't there, nor Zam.
    Who on earth set it up? Hartsman?

    I may be old but seriously find the whole thing so unprofessional it screams pre-school. And this is not aimed at you Radar, but at Dayderp.
    Ridolain, Merriel, Kinya and 5 others like this.
  12. Filly67 Well-Known Member

    Ok, couple of things. First I never thought I would ever see Eyenstein posting in the forums. Hell has indeed frozen over.

    Second. I have been nothing but disappointed in this game for months. I actually would get upset with Feldon for his continued defense of where this game is going. That being said I am also a huge fan of his and he has nothing but my appreciation and respect. It is a sure sign of the times (as if we needed more proof) that the disconnect between who works and runs the game and the player base is almost completely broken when someone like Feldon is being treated like this. I have a huge problem with it and can only say for shame on those who feel that it is important to stifle those who only have this game's interest at heart.

    There are no good reasons for moving discussions and communications out of this forum venue.
    Jeeshman, Tylia, Merriel and 6 others like this.
  13. Pipsissiwa Well-Known Member

    I think already this thread is highlighting my issues with the moderation here.

    These days it is nigh impossible to know whether something you post will be considered trolling, off topic or non-constructive. Both myself and many of my guildies have had posts removed and/or bans with little understanding of why. No details are given and as has been stated, it is difficult to get hold of anyone to appeal once banned. Lots of my guildies have no interest in posting here because they worry that if they actually ask a tricky question or say something in just the wrong way they will get warnings or bans. That's not right - these forums should be welcoming.



    Posts will vanish from threads whilst others full of vitriol and personal attacks stay put. Some challenging questions or opinions seem ok, others are a no-no. Saying moderation is at 'our discretion' doesn't help - we have absolutely NO IDEA exactly what will or won't upset whichever Mod is around that day. What one person thinks is fine another thinks goes over the line, as the discussion here of Feldon's recent case shows. Consistency is lacking. A player may post in good faith that what they are putting will be fine as similar always has been before, and then get in trouble because today it isn't fine any more, or they used slightly the wrong phrasing. This has happened to me and some of my friends. I'm not talking swear words or insults here either.

    My last ban was for asking how the newly announced new SOE account All-Access would be implemented for those playing some SOE games under Proseiben (as both new European EQ2 players and all European DCUO players were), in the thread asking for feedback and questions about the new plan. On appeal, I discovered that my question was apparently off-topic, despite fitting perfectly in the thread & being a valid concern. Given I had made two minor infringements in the last month or so I deserved the three day ban I got. Makes no sense to me, and I still to this day don't understand how the blooming heck that was off topic.

    How to make it better? I'm not entirely sure, but communication, as ever, is the key. Maybe DBG can be better at that that SOE ever were - shouldn't be too hard :)

    That said, I would suggest:
    1) Giving people way more detailed information about why they are having posts removed or being banned - not just 'trolling' or whatever.
    2) Not just vanishing posts but replacing the offending post with one which says 'Post by <Player> removed for <Reason>' so we all know. what happened.
    3) Tell the player their post is in violation, and give them a chance to rectify it - so much of the time most of a post is useful but it gets vanished for one small part.

    Just my thoughts.
    Tylia, beagley, Aeriel and 6 others like this.
  14. Vexrm Member

    Okay, I have many concerns and thoughts on all this.

    1) If I'm banned, to my knowledge I haven't been, am I informed why?
    2) Is there a way to appeal a ban?
    3) Is there a way to ban people from the forums and not the game?

    As for why not reddit?
    Right now we have 4 twitter accounts, one facebook, the official forums, reddit, and "special interviews" with the press. All these are sources for information about the game and what's coming.

    The moderation process is not what I would call transparent at all. I just see POOF moderation and no clue why. It's better than a few years ago where a couple people got banned (temp bans) for quoting a post that infringed.

    As for no one saying we can only talk about the Rum on Reddit, I guide you to the official text:
    "While we'll continue to be reviewing reports we get in-game sent via /bug and /feedback, we'll also using Reddit as a place to collect feedback and bug reports from the Rum Cellar Campaign beta. If you haven't used this before, you can find it here:www.reddit.com/r/EQ2/. The devs will be will be using Reddit as one of their primary ways to discuss and review Beta issues so we can stay current and have the community up-vote and down-vote relevant or irrelevant issues. "

    Having been with you all for many years that means "If I post elsewhere the thread will be closed down and I'll be told to post on Reddit."

    Side Armchair Quarterbacking here I imagine these forums will soon be gone and reddit was an option floated. I agree reddit needs a full buy in to work. The problem is I only use reddit when the official forums are garbage. I mean more garbage than the EQ2 Forums. Folks might think you can't get worse. I assure you, you can.
    Merriel and StoneAch like this.
  15. Azian Well-Known Member

    My primary concern would be summed up by saying that the moderators (and you) should lighten up on the reins here. My opinion and observation is that a very large percentage of the posting population enjoy some banter that takes place in these threads mixed in with whatever the topic at hand may be. That said, not everybody is going to get along at all times and that will come out. Sometimes folks vehemently disagree. For the most part, there is no reason for you or Moderator 0x to be involved unless the thread is really and truly getting out of hand. In that case, lock it and move on but even that bar should be set quite high. As others have said, most players of this game are adults and in one way or another are paying customers and would love to be treated as such.

    I realize that this forum is proprietary and you "have the right" to moderate it however you deem fit. That doesn't make it a good idea to delete posts, delete threads, and ban/suspend players on what seems to be a highly variable bar depending upon which Mod 0x happens to become involved. Again, for the most part even if someone hits a "flag for moderation" button...the mods should be starting from the position that they'd rather not become involved at all and only take action if someone is being hyper aggressive in their postings.

    Oh, the fact that this site has historically been fairly heavily moderated makes it all that much more surprising to me that there is a new push towards the wilds of Reddit. Overall, the move towards Reddit makes zero sense unless this forum is going to be shut down. If that's the case, please do us a favor and say so.
    Jeeshman, Tylia, Merriel and 6 others like this.
  16. Atan Well-Known Member

    My experience with forum moderation is basically the same as Feldon states here.

    It seems my inclination to call a 'spade' a 'spade' and being very direct in my opinion of hypocrisy constitutes 'trolling' in the moderators of this forums viewpoint.

    I honestly can not distinguish when my opinion is in violation here and not in violation here, so I just say what is on my mind. If they want to delete the post, I just move on and don't squawk about it. Occasionally that gets me a suspension of ban, but alas, these seem to be fairly transient.
    CoLD MeTaL, Tylia, Feara and 10 others like this.
  17. Pipsissiwa Well-Known Member

    Oh, I also have a question.

    How long ago do forum 'indiscretions' have to be before they don't count any more, or are they on your record forever? Eg, if I had some posts removed several years ago, and now get one removed, does that count as my third strike (or whatever) and I get a ban, despite years without forum violation? At what point, if any, do past violations not matter much any more?
    Tylia and Wirewhisker like this.
  18. Katz Well-Known Member

    Is it true that you can get banned for liking posts that subsequently get deleted? That was posted on reddit. Which I am now reading even though I prefer not to. :(

    Actually, can you list what will get us banned, permabanned, and will any of it get us banned from the game? Suddenly I have become paranoid about the forums.
    Tylia, Merriel, NickStern and 4 others like this.
  19. Amaitae Active Member

    Of course in the cases you didn't mention the potential for litigation was probably high enough which would only be the case here if your rights were violated, or you can make the case for being offended in a way that justifies any litigation. On the other hand it would depend highly on the reason mentioned. Obviously I can't give you an example for that because I would violate forum rules. So you see, in the end no one is suing anyone here without breaking forum rules first and I doubt the forum moderation would do that themselves.
  20. Vexrm Member

    Oh, to add some more, posting this late in the day on a Friday adds to the view. In this case I assume it's because timing and you acted quickly. However, it still stands, I don't expect RadarX to keep up with this thread over his(?) weekend.

    Have a great weekend EQ2. Let's see what responses we get.
    StoneAch likes this.
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