An Open Dialogue Regarding Forum Moderation

Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by RadarX, Apr 10, 2015.

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  1. RadarX Community Manager

    At Daybreak we always strive to have our community’s best interest in mind with every decision we make. Based on recent feedback we understand some of you have expressed frustration surrounding Developer activity on Reddit and moderation on the forums.

    As you know, we are not shy about our open development and transparent communications policy. In fact, we look to sites like Reddit as a middle ground for constructive, unbiased conversations about our games. We do understand that Reddit may be a significant change and we’re hopeful that you’ll at least stop by and take a look at it, if you haven’t already.

    Additionally, there were concerns surrounding specific moderation actions which took place in a few highly visible threads. While we typically do not discuss these publicly, there was a vocal reaction and we’d like to clear things up a little.

    Feldon has made a significant number of contributions over the years through EQU and his coverage of EverQuest 2 on EQ2Wire. We are extremely grateful for both his time and dedication.

    Forum suspensions are never done on a whim and usually come with a fair bit of warning. Any time one is issued, it is after a string of communication and in hopes that we open up a dialogue with the individual and reach an understanding of what our guidelines will allow. This is no different with Feldon and we are hopeful to see him back here soon.

    Ordinarily we don’t discuss moderation publicly, but as the Forum Administrator, I’d like to take this opportunity to allow any questions you have. If you are concerned about a particular moderation action taken against your account I’d encourage to send me a PM, but I’ll gladly answer anything I can in the thread.
  2. Errrorr An Actual EQ2 Player

    suka, Charlice, Hijinx and 2 others like this.
  3. RadarX Community Manager

    Why not Reddit? I won't argue it is a little different in structure and function from the forums and there are plenty of good reasons to use this as a medium (not the ONLY medium) for communication.

    I'm not going to comment directly on what happened with Feldon obviously unless he asks in this thread. In my mind, trolling is trolling and if it's disruptive it breaks the guidelines. The consistency folks are asking for we need your help with. If you see someone trolling, report it. Many of the times I see concerns regarding "Why didn't you moderate this?" I find myself moderating it 99% of the time. We just didn't see it.

    Also I hope I can clear up this decision to try Reddit. This was not a "Community/Marketing" decision. We met with Dev and there was complete agreement to do this. I've spent a number of years working with Reddit communities and a key component of making them effective is buy in from the team.
  4. Prayos Well-Known Member

    Because you're forcing your community to sign up for a third party website to be able to discuss your game. This is why an "OFFICIAL FORUMS" exist to begin with. It'd be like Sam's Club requiring you to get a Costco membership when you already have a Sam's Club one.
    Sambril, Jeeshman, suka and 17 others like this.
  5. Prayos Well-Known Member

    Except mine, of course, which came with zero warning, no string of communications, or any open dialogue. Yes, you lifted it after I got hold of you hours later. But you've contradicted yourself by your own actions.
    suka, santargria, StoneAch and 2 others like this.
  6. RadarX Community Manager

    I don't remember the team stating you can't post anywhere but reddit about the Rumcellar Beta. I understand where you are coming from but your wording makes it sound like the team isn't taking any feedback from these forums anymore.
    Moonpanther and Laiina like this.
  7. RadarX Community Manager

    The suspension on your case happened because your violations all happened within a span of minutes. The goal of this was to open up a dialogue and explain the issue. I think you were suspended maybe 2 hours and only that because I was in a meeting at the time.
    Feara likes this.
  8. Prayos Well-Known Member

    Okay, well, the main concern is that the community is being forced to move over to Reddit. With all the forum closures lately, we are worried about that. Are the forums being shuttered?
    StoneAch likes this.
  9. Wanderingbat Active Member

    My issue is also with Reddit. Why, for pete's sake? Downvoting can very easily be controlled by guilds, trolls, or any and all groups of people who just plain don't like your opinion whether it is good or bad. This is another form of censorship and it also compromises the Everquest 2 community's sense of fair play and security. Keeping our conversations in house keeps out "most" of the people who should NOT have a say in what happens with our game.

    Yes, we are a bunch of possessive character's when it comes to our Norrath. I just cannot wrap my mind around sending all of this to Reddit and a bunch of people who could care less about us but will comment with vulgar rapidity and downvote a goodly amount of comments when they have no idea what the content is really about. The game to them is head games they can play on us. It's true and you know it.

    As for moderating these forums , sure I might not agree to many things. Sometimes my disagreement stems from lack of a full disclosure of what happened. How about just giving us a shout out when possible to keep us in the loop? They say silence is golden but not in this case I'm afraid. Just don't stonewall us. Please.
    Ridolain, suka, Merriel and 4 others like this.
  10. Rhvaurek Member

    Look the problem with reddit is we dont want to have a split forum community in any way shape or form, and having you want people to put feedback on reddit instead of the official forums does this.

    Also like prayos says its ridiculous to have us sign up to a third party website, no mmo and i mean no other mmo does this. STO has only their forums, FF14 has only their forums, i mean hell even private servers of ragnarok online has their own forums only for feedback and discussion.

    I feel so strongly about this silly decision even though my right hand is currently broken
    Ridolain, suka, Merriel and 4 others like this.
  11. Prayos Well-Known Member

    To open a dialogue, yet I couldn't even PM you through this forums. I had to go to the "Official Daybreak Games" forums and hope you'd answer me there. Hell, I couldn't even use the logout button. If we're banned for whatever reason, are we expected to go set up yet another forum to be able to contact you?
    suka and StoneAch like this.
  12. Errrorr An Actual EQ2 Player

    We had 'Focus Feedback' Threads post for all classes and other sections. These all got to a large amount of posts, and we have Never had any response on them at all, 3 months later. I believe the Dev's read them, but it would be nice to have some kind of idea of how they want to address the issues.

    Introducing Reddit, all that does is take away the Dev's attention from threads here, for threads over there. Splitting their attention across a wide variety of places is just going to cause more issues. Why are you taking already established forums, cutting them back so much, and then redirecting people to various other places? We are pushed towards Twitter for Game update info, Wiki for knowledge info, and now Reddit for Feedback?
    Ridolain, suka, Merriel and 10 others like this.
  13. RadarX Community Manager

    That's a crappy user experience and I'll admit that. A limitation of Xenforo unfortunately.
    Feara and Dulcenia like this.
  14. Prayos Well-Known Member

    This. See, this is exactly what I've told you, RadarX. If you would use a little transparency on the moderation, so much of the hate would disappear.
    suka, StoneAch and Katz like this.
  15. RadarX Community Manager

    That's what this thread is all about. It's open season on questions about how we moderate, why we moderate, and why DBG likes using Twitter, Reddit, etc... (in general).
    Feara likes this.
  16. Feldon Well-Known Member

    It seems my "permanent suspension" has been miraculously undone. To date, the specific criteria with which I was judged to be in breach of the forum rules has not been elucidated to me. I'm not sure it matters anymore. If I want to talk to the developers, I know how to reach them, and if players want to talk to me, they know how to reach me. I'd rather not further distract from the forum discussions which really should be focused on Kander's new article on the Rum Cellar update and a glimpse at what's coming later this year.

    As for this "open dialogue" thread, I'm going to give the same advice I would give anyone entering a casino:
    • Never bet anything you can't afford to lose (your access to play EQ2)
    • Never forget that the House always wins.
    • If you're not a gambler, then heed the advice of Admiral Akbar.
    Zeddicious, Ridolain, Awkk and 18 others like this.
  17. Prayos Well-Known Member

    But we're not talking about a general "how we moderate" or things like that. It's WHEN you moderate that we ask you tell us WHY.
    StoneAch, Pipsissiwa and Kryvak like this.
  18. Losadunai Active Member

    "Why Not Reddit?" -

    Because it's visual noise and no coherence to me. I have been going there the past few days and today, I looked and mentally went "Ugh, nevermind" and clicked away. I can't see new posts or "go to first unread" on threads I am interested in - I just see a sea or words and threads and it's wayyyyyyy too time consuming to sift through it all for what amounts to a tiny amount of content I turn out to be interested in.

    That, and the obscenity level just for the sake of being foul mouthed is silly.

    EDIT: I have had a reddit account for a while, and I have used it now and then - but it always ends the same way. I get worn out wasting the amount of time it takes to sift through to get to what I want to see. So it's become a place I go pretty much only when I know I want to waste time, and have nothing better to do. That is not what I want from a place of communication for a game I love so much.
    Ridolain, suka, Merriel and 10 others like this.
  19. RadarX Community Manager

    I'm a little stunned that with all the moderation advice you've provided over the years you wouldn't take this opportunity but I'm happy to answer what I can.

    What triggered the most recent moderation action was your repeated attempts to stir dissension on the forums through unverified facts. While this is minor trolling, we can only let things go so far. Your suspension was permanent because being honest, over the years I've lost count of how many times we've suspended you. The purpose of this, as usual, was to open up a dialogue.

    Given the extremely public display you made surrounding it, I wanted to ensure a few other folks took a look at this and responded appropriately.
    Feara and Laiina like this.
  20. Kryvak New Member

    If the purpose of your bans is to open a dialogue, perhaps an email or some easily seen way to initiate that dialogue would be helpful. I can only speak for myself, but it seems like a ban is a way of saying "we don't want you here anymore," especially if it's permanent. If that is not the case, it should be made more clear.
    suka, Merriel, NickStern and 3 others like this.
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