Am i missing something? Tired of being insulted bc i cant hold aggro like a pally.

Ok have my myth, vicious axe of nynok, Master Off stance, 5 champions mirror pieces with t3 boots and gloves.
All ca's are expert or higher.
Warrior AA's. str 4-4-8-8, sta 4-4-8-6-2, int 4-8-8
Zerker AA's. I have the 3 AE's, Destructive rage and the 2 zerk proc chances all maxed. also have the clicky zerk.
Shadows (still working on. only have 33 points for it) i have the hp and power from general, Off prowess and battle hardening from fighter, rallying cry and absoring blows from warrior, and only 3 in hasten reuse from berzerker.
Ill start the battle pulling with enrage, mock, raging blow. Then demolish for the an early stifle, clicky zerk and juggernaut, acceleration strike to get the haste effect early, Executioners wrath and follow it with grand master frenzy for solo mobs or master beserker onslaught for group. After that its tundra slam, mutilate, maul, rupture, knee break, head crush. for groups i add bloodbath and stunning roar before tundra slam. then open wounds for haste, rampage and weapon counter while i wait for acceleration strike and executioners wrath to come back up. after the first use i alternate frenzy and berzerker onslaught.
i only use insolence for adds or to pull a named. With a 3 min recast i save for when i need it.
i dw nameds. ill use the harbinger of malcontent for easier nameds or for hard ones ill put on all my t2 armor, def jewerly, and get in the def stance.
My servivablity is pretty good. ive gotten to were i dw most trash and only use the haringer of malcontent for nameds.
Im i missing something to hold aggro better? i know i need more AA's im working on that, but beside that is there something i could be doing better?
When im dw'ing i do about 2.5k to 3k dps on my own, is there a way i can crank out more? Whats the norm for a t2 wearing mythed zerker?
I think my casting order is good, but im open to suggestions.
I not trying to sound like im whining but its fustrating when i contsently try to be a better tank and its often not good enough. I feel like were the **** tank bc of pallys. I mean how op is sucking 48% aggro from the highest dps'er, i could drool on the key board and hold aggro as a pally. I love the game and my class but sometime i feel like quitting when i get told i suck bc i cant hold aggro from a wizzy's 25k ice comet with 5 secs of the pull or a brig that the dirge put battle cry on and im damn sure pallys wouldnt have a problem with that.

epyon333 wrote:

Is that on a training dummy? If so, it does seem a bit low. I'm a non-mythed zerk, DW with Nox and around the same gear (T2 with a mix of some T3) and I do around 3-3,5k on a dummy. My thought is that there is you're problem. What's your DPS in a group? I know this will change alot, but with a dirge in my group my DPS output cranks up to around 5k on solo mobs.
And if they complain to you again that you can't hold agro like a pally, ask him if he's ever seen a pally hold agro withouth amend. If he hasn't, tell him to keep quiet and deal with it. You're a zerk, not a pally. If he wants a pally, let him get a pally

Ok some remarks:
- First of all - we aren't Pallies - we don't get now overpowered Amends - in the old times they had to pay for that with not so great survivability but this has been watered down with each expansion. The fighter changes which luckily have been shelved would have done away with amends (along with almost all other hate transfer), although from what we saw on test zerkers would have been even worse...
- Warriors need support and or aggro transfers nowadays to hold aggro against high-powered DPS. Get a at least one or better two of the following: Dirge (buffs your Aggro), Troub (reduces groups aggro), Illu (reduces group and single aggro plus can buff your double attack by a lot), Coercer (buffs your aggro and transfers part of his to you, reduces single aggro), Assassin (transfers part of his aggro) or Swash (transfers part of his aggro). The transfers from Assassin and Swash are not compatible, so you'll get only one.
- What are you DWing with - ideally you want a 3 or 6s delay offhander with a high max damage. Ah, saw the WoE Axe - this is ok although Nox Noctis or Claw of Khalen are a tad better.
- Regarding CAs - i think the single taunt is the best Grandmaster choice unless you've got it mastered too. Also stuns and knockdowns generate a lot of hate so you want to make shure to get these in fast.
- What are your Melee Crit and Double Attack values - you want to max these without getting a paper tank. But if you say your survivability is good, you might want to get a tad more offensive.
- Try to get the last ability from KoS Int Branch - gives you 12% faster recast plus 30% less recovery (the 0.5s delay between CAs). This allows you to spam some CAs on incoming faster and obviously faster recast ist good too.
- Get Enhance: Raging Blow in EoF tree - 20% more damage and aggro from one your staple CAs is to good to pass up on. If you often loose aggro right at the start of an encounter due to taunt resists or you generally get a lot of taunts resisted, getting cyclones might help.
- Offensive Prowess is meh imho because your off stance increases your weapon abilities and therefore your chance to hit in melee. Unfortunately these are just fine in off stance (although they suck in def) so not much to be gained here. Take Enhance Rescue instead for a half recast time on your get aggro now button #1.
- If you did indeed not take Sneering Assault (TSO Fighter End Ability) and Cry of the Warrior (TSO Warrior End Ability) please read them again - they're both positional taunts ie. increase your aggro position and great to get aggro back.

I find that when I am dw'ing my delays are like 2.5 secs and when sword and board it is 1.9 sec which in turn allows my myth to throw more aoe damage which will help with aoe aggro. Single target I would say that dw is better. Zerker weak combat art damage combined with sucky hit rates doesn't help either. So yeah dirge and any other transfer of hate will always be welcome for the warriors.
Zerker mythical should proc a high threat value. Currently if the zerker is getting hit 25% will be added as hate toward the mobs which is fine as long as the zerker is getting hit. If zerker is not getting hit then it is a loss.

I use to have problems like that with crusaders. I went nuts with speed, crit, and da. Anything that helped my offensive abilities is a +. that includes the hate gain from str aa and the int end line. So my stuff right now is 4 pieces of t3, 3 t2. myth, vox not from soh. 2 peices of the najena assassin jewelry. like i said though this is me.. I love my berserker now. I find it joyful to be able to disrupt the goody tooshoe crusaders. Not that i do it on purpose like they have been doing to me forever..
Also make friends with a dirge and/or coercer. Now im a damn aggro magnet, do too much dps and steal aggro.

good luck buddy

TBH a big part of the proble is not your build or your gear. Yes we could all use a tweak here or there but tbh is there really only one way to build an out fit a zerk..... No so with that in mind I will say this. the biggest problem is people are getting used to following Crusaders around. They can go nuts with their DPS unload hit the mobs with everything they have and its np ( esp if its an SK ). They expect all tanks to be this way now. Its not just the DPS though the some of the healers are getting slack also due to being behind a SK as its easier for them to heal a Crusader with less mit then a Warrior with more mit just due to the self heals and life taps they get. Its the mechanics of the game atm.

There are 2 ways aggro will not be a problem.

1) Get way better gear than the rest of your group.
2) They watch the hate meter

Or #3: Get a stacked group - got into a fast train instance group with some hi-powered dps from a top raiding guild with my rather moderately geared zerker (myth, savage wall, t2 shard armor & some fabled instance drops) and we had a blast. They did certainly not hold back their dps but due to great group setup holding aggro was difficult but manageable. Top score was 72k dps on the last named in DF, group was swash, dirge, troub, illu, inq and my zerk.

not to sound obvious but i have seen 2-3 zerkers who didn;t realise you needed to activate the myth to have the ae bonus. just makin sure you do. and with your weapons/gear you should be puttin out abit more dps, be sure you time your ca's right to go with your auto attack,, will really make a differance. if you have trouble with it watch the new ingame auto attack bar or download double attack plug in for prophet ui. and most importantly is gorup make up, it can make or break any group, even the pali with amends if he has 1 parser goiin higher than anyone else yes it's cake for him but if he has an even group and the one he has amends slacks during a fight he's screwed. persionally i kinda like being the tank that has it hardest, i don;'t want a easy mode, zerkers have to fight tooth and nail to do what we gotta do but thats the fun part imho. unless i got a wizz parsin 15k or somethin i usually have no agro probs and when were the hardest tank to play right and you get good at it it's worth it

I play both Zerker and Pally at lvl 80 although Zerk is my main so he is mythed and has the better gear. I can say Pally is easy mode tanking. Amends makes you lazy and tbh it get's quite boring not having to do any work to hold agro.
Something i have found from PUGs and guild groups is make up helps us the most as Zerks. I hate having mainly mage groups and a troub unless i can get a Coercer or good hate transfer as i find troub does little for me in the way of additional hate and boost to dps. I now try to get groups with either a dirge or coercer in them if not both so that i can get all the hate i really need and then any hate transfer from dps is a bonus. If i can't get either of those i just warn the dps to watch the hate meter and i won't take responsability for them taking dirt naps Other than a friend who plays wiz most people i have grouped with have been pretty good and understanding of this. My friend just likes to try to dps high and then has high repair bills so i enjoy grouping with him
The main thing is hang in there and just try and get your self some utility that helps you. Dirge over troub, coercer over illi generally works well and ask for specific buffs if they are not on you if it will help you hold agro. I find nothing wrong with asking for additional melee dps buffs over melee dps classes if you are losing agro.

well i didn't see anything listed about the group makeup

and when someone would call me out and compare you to another tank class i would ask them if they would like to tank, they can then either kindly stf u, leave or be booted from group. warriors have their own issues, we require more hate dumps and buffers than crusaders, this is already a known issue. you should also get used to it.

I play a Guard and I know that Zerkers have a tad easier time of aggro these days but its pretty safe to say that both Warriors are really dependent on group makeup and the 'help' of those in group. As others have said the problem may not be with your gear or spec it could just be a bad group and/or a group made up of people that have gotten spoiled by grouping with SKs or Pallys.

Both warriors suffer. Guards do have snap aggro tools where zerkers have better sustained aggro. Now for warriors who do not have their myths yet it is even more a nightmare. The only way that warriors do not have aggro issues are when the other group memebers have inferior gear, ca's & spells, and skill.
In my opinion it has never been easy mode for either warrior. Sad thing is taunts are still suffering for all fighters and this is something that can be fixed now and not later. Why something has not been learned yet from all the complaints and the good benefits of the revamp is a mystery to me. The revamp did have some bad points but the taunt increasers, double taunt, and taunt crits would be a welcome addition for all fighters.
Fighter dps still need adjustments but is close to where it should be with the exception that brawlers need a boost in that department for their inferior survival.

Maciz@Runnyeye wrote:

The 500dps difference could be simply because you're using one of the best 2nd hand weapon a Zerker could have for DWing. Non-raid 3s delay secondaries are very very crappy.

MoonSorceror wrote:

Please don't say things like this (especially since amends gets reduced in every group due to xfer cap). If the paladin doesn't have one uncontested top dpser and cancel all the group's hate transfers onto us (which of course spurs yelling at the noob pali because he wants to actually use amends and get it's benefit >.> we will have just as much agro trouble as a zerker that is being regularly outdpsed. Also, the paladins would KILL to have a damage absorb that actually did something. Paladin:Stonewall (2 aa, 180+, 85% average absorbs thorns/dot proc of <100 damage) vs Berserker:Wall of Force (2 aa, 180+)
SKs may have it super easy mode where they can do anything they want, but with a pali that is not the case unless you have an uncontested top dpser on EVERY fight. I'm not crying "poor paladin" or saying that there is no such thing as an easy mode group for the paladin, but I am saying that the paladins don't have an easy ticket for every setup and especially so with the typical setup that most PUGs use or if our amends target dies, is stiffled, gets resisted, slacks, LDs, etc. The paladins don't cry about the zerker's dps when we see some awesome zerker parses, so please return the favor by not crying about amends when it does what it's supposed to; especially since it is a double edged sword for us and we do pay in other categories for having amends.

That said, as a zerker, as many have stated your hate does rely heavily on your dps. If you aren't timing combat arts between auto attacks, I'd strongly suggest you do so and the auto attack notification plugin from ACT helps immensely with that. Another great way to boost your personal hate is via a coercer. They have a +DPS mod that is wicked (+dps is very difficult to cap selfbuffed where as the other melee stats are not nearly as difficult to hit the diminishing returns), a respectable transfer, and their myth gives damage to all your taunts not to mention they debuff physical enough to make a difference. Coercers also get an awesome hate gain reduction buff they can put on others. Dirges will help with the transfers, hate reductions, and dps boosts that they give you, but keep in mind that they also help everyone elses damage, and I often find that the dirge increases everyone pretty close to the same amount that they decrease their hate. The group 10% crit mod bards get will make a significant increase to those that are well geared and could actually end up making your task slightly harder in some (rare) situations with well equipped T1 dpsers.
For buffing your hate and reducing other's ability to pull off you (assuming the toons are played with equal levels of ability) the priority in terms of benefit you as a zerker will see is coercer, dirge, troub, illy. Or rather thats my opinion from running dozens of zones each day with a zerker for the last 2 years and being equally split play time between a warden, trouby, pali, and wizzy in that order.

I have to agree with the most of the post although as a Zerk it is easy to cap dps and haste to that matter with gear from group instances and procs. Personaly if i get a dirge and coercer in my group i'm sat at 201dps mod before beserk or jewlery items proc. Once all procs start going off i can have over 300 dps and 250 haste mods. If it's looking for dps then melee crit and double attack are highly sort after although hard to get huge amounts of from group instances alone. (At least from what i've seen) My gear is a mix of tank and dps as generally i play roll of tank and OT when we raid, although even then i end up tanking adds or spike agro off MT so i keep the tank gear on to stop my healers having panic attacks

First off i know this is late and all but,
I think your casting order is your main problem. Stop temping up while your supposed to be dpsing the mob.
try casting Rampage, Weapon Counter, Open Wounds, any defensive buffs you want up and then clicky berserk and juggy and or adren if you need it and again stop casting temp buffs while your groups beating on the mob... you must be DPS'n the mob also or your never gonna hold agro

Get INT endline in the warrior tree
For group encounters use a shield ( harbinger from SoH) if you got it and go O-Stance and you'll do more dps then dual wield ( if you have a myth)

No other tanks in my guild( including SK) out dps me on raids on encounter mobs.. try using 5 training dummies together to work on your AE dps. Self buffd with no godspells i think my best parse was over 11k on 5 dummies like 1:25 ish iirc

epyon333 wrote:

im a paladin so if i am wrong i opoligies, but im fairly sure zerks can put out atleast the same amount of dps i can, if that being true this seems really really low if this is your group parses, im in teir 2 mythed with the gloves and boots teir 3 and i easily double that in most groups. and as an experiment i did a DF run today with a couple friends (basically i feel for you so i tried to tank what i beileve a zerk would feel like, aka no sheild in offensive no amends no sigil no holy ground) group dps was 30kish (which is better then most pickup groups) group setup was. Dirge illy mystic me wizard assassin. i zw 6k and didnt have a whole lot of trouble (dont get me wrong wasent cake like with amends i lost agro 2 times throughout the zone but snaped it back with rescue or the TSO aa fighter taunt) honestly i would just work on your parse, and maybe run with an illy instead of a coer you might loose the flat hate increase but seeing as an above poster said zerks have an easy time with the dps mod it might be worth it.

Yeah ive been getting some aggro issues as well, as a experienced Berserker in the past year ago I remembered holding aggro like it was nothing even against high damage Wizards and I would get 2nd or 3rd on the parse always. But now coming back into the game again and making a new Berserker ive seen some differences like my survivability is lowered and holding aggro seems a bit tougher than before.
For example, I usually group with three friends of mine a Wizard, an Assassin and a Dirge and I refuse to accept the Dirge's hate buff because in my opinion that will make it too easy for me in a group so I told him to just give me one of the other buffs rather than the hate gain buff. I am again almost always 2nd or 3rd on the parse and 1st place on the parse when it is an AoE fight but occassionally i would loose aggro to the Wizard who has all expert spells or adepts which could be explainable but one thing I do not get is the Assassin getting aggro he has all apprenticed he gives me an aggro transfer and uses ignorant bliss and I still occassionally loose aggro to him and now I start to question myself "What am I doing wrong? Im almost always 2nd or 3rd place on the parse. Why do I still loose aggro?"

Im currently level 52 and have 53 AA.
This is how im planning out my AA.
Str - 4 8 8
Sta - 4 8 8 3 1
Int - 4 8 8 2 1
Here is my gear/bio
http://eq2players.station.sony.com/...erId=1230674203

epyon333 wrote:

By "clicky zerk", do you mean your mythical? If so, once clicked it's permanent until cancelled. If you're constantly turning this off and on that's probably what's gimping your DPS. The bonus is huge.
You should have no problem holding AE agro against any other fighter, including crusaders. More AAs will help at that. After 180 it becomes a breeze. AAs make a HUGE difference, and if you're going up against nearly maxxed or maxxed AA specced players, you're going to have problems. Period.

By clicky beserk they mean one of the end aa lines in the beserker tree.