Adornments comments

Discussion in 'Tradeskill Discussion' started by ARCHIVED-Domino, Jul 26, 2007.

  1. ARCHIVED-jjlo69 Guest

    [p]im not certain if this has been bough up but the ratio of how a trans mutter gets the supplies needed to make adronments is out of wack less then 10 percent chance est to get a powder off a treasured item and less the that top get a mana off a fabled item makes making any adronent out there. And as most stated here there are not enough +int for any peices and need more choices for helm/forarms and boots. and would like to see adronments for quivers/pouches sinceyou can adron secondary items and place them in ranged slot.[/p][p] [/p][p]morzerk[/p]
  2. ARCHIVED-sliderhouserules Guest

    I like this idea a lot. The market is currently completely out of whack. Transmuting an actual item should return fragments. Those fragments should then be combined into the raws used to make adornments, like powders, etc.
  3. ARCHIVED-sliderhouserules Guest

    How about we change that quote to read *was* intended, and it'll help give proper perspective to making appropriate design decisions based on the *current* state of the game. If there is enough reason to change it, original intentions should take a back seat to current needs and the future health of the game. (I'm sure everybody on the red-name side of the wall would agree with that.) There are several really good reasons to take adornments away from transmuters, and only a couple questionable ones for leaving them there. Not to mention the fact that Transmuting is the gathering skill for all adornment making. So adornment making cannot happen without the secondary intended purpose of this secondary skill? That really doesn't make any sense. And a very large point that needs repeating is that there is nothing that would let someone know that when they hit 100 they can no longer progress their skill in the way they have been. Switching mid-stream to a different skillup system makes it very clear that this wasn't very well thought out. That point, at least, should probably be addressed sooner than later. I talk to people in the channels all the time that are like, hey I haven't had a skill up in like 100 transmutes... is this a bug or something? What's your skill level? 100. Ah... (Long conversation commences.) This seems like the perfect time to deal with the whole issue. You're looking to try to balance adornments. Part of that is filling out the categories, part of that is slot balance, part of that is class balance. Take even one of those variables out and you have a simpler system to try to balance, by orders of magnitude. That makes you be able to do more work in less time. Reducing complexity is key. This is reiterating what I said earlier in the thread, but I wanted to refine the third point a bit. - Categorize all adornments and worry about balancing the categories against each other. - Give a single category to a single crafting class. - Remove slot restrictions from adornments and limit it to 3 identical treasured, 2 identical legendary, and only one of each fabled. This eliminates the need to worry about class balance as well as slot balance. All you have to worry about is category balance (or you can call it class balance, since they'd be equivalent). Reducing the number of categories by taking adornments away from Transmuters just helps to simplify things. 10 classes/categories to balance, instead of 11. You improve the market, you give some love to weaponsmiths, the list goes on... and most has already been mentioned. So I'll leave it at that.
  4. ARCHIVED-Domino Guest

    Deson wrote:
    Sometimes it's hard to keep track of what I've told to whom, and sometimes there are some spoilers that I won't want to (or am not allowed to) reveal in advance. But that said I most certainly will do my best to give everyone in beta all the information they will need. Plus, Niami knows where to find me in person if I don't, and she has a rather large rolling pin. So I think you can rest assured on that count. ;)
  5. ARCHIVED-KerowynnKaotic Guest

    [p] I'm sitting here snickering. I'm evil. I know it. [/p][p]------[/p][p]Well, truth be told, though NOTHING about these skills were clearly communicated. You were a player when these came out .. did you totally understand them? Obviously not since even as a Dev you had to appeal to a higher court .. [/p][p]*IF* Adornments are supposed to be our skill up method there needs to be either #1 a slight increase in the skill gained ratio and/or #2 Our harvests need to be given a set amount of buy back and/or #3 Throw in a random event/chance to gain multiple Frags/powders/infusions/mana upon transmuting. I am hoping for #1 & #3 myself .. [/p][p](multiples: 2 frags / 2 powders / 2 frags + 2 powders .. etc .. )[/p][p]As a Transmuter I have yet to sell any of my "harvests". I keep them for my use. Either for skill up or personal use. I'm sure I am not the only Transmuter that does this. Due to this hording, though, I/we have helped to create a system that has artifically inflated prices for any/all adornments. The average person has to pay nearly 1 plat for an Augment! The original Armor piece might have not even cost that much! (prices vary from server to server .. adorn to adorn .. etc .. ;) [/p][p]If I was able to either get my skill slightly faster and/or occassionally got bonuses upon transmuting items .. I would gladly throw up a few of my Transmuted "stuff" on the broker .. but since some of the recipes call for 8 powders! A stack of 50 doesn't go far when outfitting for a new tier at that rate. And, requires a lot of time & engery to horde up that much in the first place! [/p][p]:-?[/p]
  6. ARCHIVED-Deson Guest

    I appreciate and thank you for it. Something I hope all devs realize and that your fellow devs have learned is that you simply can't get good feedback if people don't know what's going on or what's supposed to happen. With yet more information having trickled out about the "secondaries", that's really all I have left to say on the matter.
  7. ARCHIVED-Cinnimon Guest

    Something that has bother me from day one of EoF with this transmuting stuff is.....
    That it don't make sense to me is how many frags and powers it takes to make them skill adorns and then only find that it's worth only the fuel, when how many treasure items did you waste to get that? depending on tiers it comes out that the system coming out way ahead when you sell back for the treasure items are way worth more then fuel cost alone so why isn't sell back reflecting all treasure items you just put into that item? If that was even more balance out that would make a big difference to me for then I can salvage some lost of coin. I know this won't help the transmuters maxed out so much but it will help even in RoK.
    Another solution is make it where we can combine skill up adorns to make frags for there is so many lower tiers on the market and no where is there a way to recoop any money back on all them treasure items we wasted, perhap with a chance to get a bonus power sometimes. The way coding would work is it will automaticially check your inventory and sees if you have like for example lets say 5 adorns=1 frag? Just an idea
    Another suggestion is make adrons more for classes instead of limiting us on certains one to adorn that doesn't benefit our class all that much and also up the resist adorns or double them up as well too, but not sure if that will help them adornments all that much....better yet add them to the adornments with single stats as is?
  8. ARCHIVED-Deson Guest

    Cinnimon wrote:
    The coin loss was intended as part of it's difficulty. It's why when you take it up you are clearly warned you are risking going broke to support it. I actually like that aspect of it since the monetary risk acts as a very good barrier to entry and tester of dedication. Both "secondaries" were intended to be more difficult and less accessible than the primary crafts so this fits well into that design.
  9. ARCHIVED-Rijacki Guest

    DominoDev wrote:
    If so, then they really should have had adornments in every slot (a least one in each) rather than all for 1 slot. Heck, maybe the transmuters should have gotten all the resist adornments as their 'common'.

    Oh.. and I do think that was what they said or at least implied in beta as part of the reason they were changing the skill-ups on 'muting stuff to stop at 100 and be only crafting after.

    But, the concept of 'muted items being No Value does fit with the concept of them being a 'harvest'.

    I just wish there was more reason, aside from skill cap, for a transmuter to 'harvest' components to make them available to others and not just use for themselves. In the rest of the crafting world, there are harvests outside of what a crafter can use for himself that he has to reap (if he harvests solely for himself) that are intended, theoretically, to be shared around (or sold) to other crafters. Not so for transmuters, everything they 'harvest' is used by themselves. One way that could be 'addressed' is for the non-transmuter treasured adornment recipes to be opposite in component count as the transmuters to take up the slack of their over production on the components they don't use as much.
  10. ARCHIVED-Oakum Guest

    sliderhouserules wrote:
    If it is changed to a harvesting skill, it also can be opened up for classes to do both tinkering and transmuting. Those like me who prefer to play one main character would be able to do tinkering also, therefore taking more money raws and, most importantly, the players time with another way to permanently improve our characters.
    It would be something that would keep me and many other players busy while waiting for the next expansion.
  11. ARCHIVED-Ennis Guest

    Put in solvents so you can remove and reuse adornments! You can tag them as attuned so folks can not resell them if that is a worry. Personally I am rather hesitant to purchace a 5pp adornment just to know that next week I might get an item that I would replace the adorned one with.
  12. ARCHIVED-MirageEIG Guest

    my comments: - resists +100 across the board at t7 are ridiculous - this should be 200 (if not 300+) even if they are just treasured adornments to make it worth anything. i hoenstly dont think i ahve sold one +resist adornment - variety in some items like head, chest, legs needed - pretty much everyone uses the same ones (class dependant) such as most use +100 power for the head piece unless you are a healer in which sometimes they use the t6 fabled; legs everyone uses the +str or +sta, chests everyone goes after +6 to all stats. Some more options would be very nice to add some real variety - ear - basically one piece available in +int - cloak basically one available in +mana regen
  13. ARCHIVED-Zannah Guest

    DominoDev wrote:
    This comment stuck out for me. Adornments I make are for skill ups and maybe i'll use one on an alt here and there. You can see by the market flooding that adornments made by Transmuters are little more than vendor trash. Most of the sought after adornments are made by primary crafting skills - whose primary function is NOT making adornments.
    IMHO "Making raw materials out of rot loot for other crafters to create adornments" is a bit more in line with reality I think.
  14. ARCHIVED-Cuz Guest

    After this long, I can still say that transmuting is the worst designed aspect of EQ2. And I'm including the crappy racial skills that don't scale.
  15. ARCHIVED-Rijacki Guest

    In thinking about this a while... If transmuters really are supposed to have crafting of adornments as their main pursuit? how come they can only make adornments for one spot? My idea would be for transmuters to, for their commons, make resist adornments for each armor slot and, for their rares, something in each slot as well. It would give them the most adornment recipes, but that doesn't matter since they don't get recipe XP like the main crafts. Yes, this does propose taking the resists adornments from the other classes, but they could be replaced by things that might actually matter and be desired. Even though it still is a problem for weaponsmiths, the transmuters keeping the weapon adornments would probably be easiest. The resists, though, could stay the amounts they are.
  16. ARCHIVED-Wrapye Guest

    I like that idea, but +100 to resist at T7 really is not worthwhile for anyone. Due to the nature of the diminishing returns curve, unless your resists are very low, +100 adds very little to your survivability - it is less than 1% of the max resist value. Something between +300 and +400 would be better, or in general +40-60/tier. As a raiding mage, I don't think there is a big problem with the leg/foot adornments. +14 Sta means more health, and having more health means it takes more damage to kill you. Never a bad thing in my book. I could see a +movement speed fabled adornment for feet, as long as it either stacks with other +movement spells/abilities or isn't too high so as to get the druids and bards up in arms.
  17. ARCHIVED-Wyrmypops Guest

    [p]I reckon the whole transmuting hooha is one of the worst things I've come across in the game. But saying that is about as useful as a chocolate teapot. [/p][p]Specifically, for me, it's proved offensive in that my main is/was a weaponsmith. They'd been knocked down so much before (weapons yoinked, all their consumables being stolen), when the transmuting became an add it killed it for me. [/p][p]All the classes purportedly making adornments, with transmuters making a bit of everything, sounded good. Except that weaponsmiths get a load of undesirable adornments to make, while the transmuters make all the best ones to apply to a weapon. It ain't as if everyone gets to make something, but the transmuters top anything other classes can make, they limit their "nyah nyah" to weaponsmiths. [/p]
  18. ARCHIVED-Terron Guest

    It was clearly communicated that transmuting was a secondary tradeskill, implying that a transmuters primary role would be their tradeskill class, so it is perfectly understandable that people do not view transmuters that way. It would make a lot of sense for transmuting to be a "gather skill" used only for "gathering" and with skill ups coming only from such "gathering" just like the other harvesting skills. Then the actual crafting of all adornments could be done with separate crafting skills - as many already are. The mixing of crafting and harvesting functions on one skill is a mess. I can see reasons why the current way might have been chosen, but it was a mistake. It would have made more sense to have the crafting of those adornments that all transmuters can make use one of the old secondary tradeskills like geomancy. It would have made even more sense to leave all the crafting to the crafting classes, but it would probably be too painful to move to that now.
  19. ARCHIVED-BigChiefJJ Guest

    Currently it is designed that a transmuters primary roll is to make adornments, we have to as its our only way of increasing our skill after we hit 100. However after I hit my maximum and don't need to skill up anymore, my transmuter has really only been used for creating the raw materials so that my other tradeskillers can make the adornments that my guild mates want. I actually get very few requests for adornments that my transmuter can actually make (usually it's the phantom or vampiric adornments for weapons).
    Suggestions were made to give transmuters more recipes, I don't think this is the whole answer, actually I think it's quite the opposite. Transmuter have lots of recipes now, they are kinda like Sages - lots of recipes (App IV's) that are really only useful for getting skill ups. Since you get no ‘pristine' bonus for doing the recipe first time, why have so many? Couldn't we reduce the weapon restrictions for the current transmuter made adornments and have one of each proc type that could be put on any weapon type? If more adornments are going to be given to transmuters, they have to be recipes that the player base deems useful.
    We have adornments that give +slashing, +piercing and +crushing, yet we have none that give +ranged (show the rangers some love). I would also like to see the +dps adornment for ranged weapons reevaluated (possibly moved to a quiver or pouch and off of the ranged weapon). Melee classes can put a +10 dps adornment on their throwing weapons (or bows) and neck and still take advantage of the procs that get put on their primary weapons (melee). Rangers are limited to not getting the benefit of the procs on their melee weapons and have to choose from either a damage proc on the bow or a +dps adorn. I believe the bow ones are fabled dps adornments where the ones that go on other ranged weapons are legendary - the two need to be the same.
    I'd like to see some proc based adornments (similar to what the transmuters are making for weapons) for jewelry (rings, earrings, wrists) that would have the ability to proc on any type of attack (ranged, melee CA, spell).
    I'd like to see some adornments that have an effect on hate (maybe head or waist or cloak or all three) - treasured item that has a chance to proc a deagro or an increase in agro, legendary that has either a better proc rate or higher result from the treasured one, and a Fabled one with a chance to increase or decrease your hate position by 1 if it procs. There would be one set for agro and one for deagro.
    But the underlying problem you are going to have is that any items that transmuters have to produce in bulk to gain skills will flood the market and prices will be extremely low. This is evident as people are taking raw materials that can sell for 20+gp, creating an adornment and selling the adornment for 5 sp.
  20. ARCHIVED-Mighty Melvor Guest

    [p]/agree 100%[/p][p]To me: 'Gathering' is obtaining the raw materials (i.e. treasured + items) 'Primary Function of Transmuting' is breaking down the materials into transmuted raw materials 'Output' is the raw material sold or traded to tradeskillers to make adornments[/p][p]Transmuting materials is NOT a gathering skill. The dev that created this in the past was dead wrong! Transmuting is just what it was advertised to be: A SECONDARY tradeskill[/p][p]Please migrate all the transmuter recipes to weaponsmiths (where they belong) and base transmuting skill-ups on performance of their primary function: breaking down raw materials. [/p]