Alfred75 - that's excatly what i am talking about ... Major jump in efficiency happens upon changing tier of spell, changing ranks give much less effect. Aka App 4- to Adept 1 - effect strong and very visible, Adept 1 to Adept 3 - almost no effect, Adept 3 to Master 1 stong and very visible effect. The only exception from this rule is App 1 to App 3 upgrade - here you will see around +50% damage upgrade or better say most visible upgrade you could ever see is App 2 to App 3 (in relative values of course) For buffing and debuffing upgrading from Apprentice 1 to Master 1 have little to no effect. For healing and offsensive spells 2.5X App1 = Mst 1
Let me try to summarise as sensibly as I could: Damage Spells: The spell's damage should scale higher from Apprentice to Adept and to Master. At the moment, only lower level spells scale correctly, while a number of the higher level ones do not scale properly. Buff Spells: These spells do not scale correctly, or even scale at all. It makes not difference whether the spell is Apprentice, Adept or Master. Only improvement in buff effects is when the character levels up. Utility Spells: These spells (such as root) do not scale correctly unless there is a damage component or heal component. The damage or heal will increase, but the actual utility of the spell does not scale. E.g. Frozen Manacles Apprentice vs Adept ==> difference only in damage, but root duration or probability of root breaking does not change. The most badly affected utility spells are those without damage or heal component. A real life example: I upgraded Bony Grasps from Adept 1 to Master 1 and found no change at all the the root effect (root duration, recast, power all remains constant). Pet Spells: These spells seemed to be scaling correctly, only problem is some pets suck big time, especially for conjurers. Please correct me if I am wrong anywhere.
We never know what supose to happend with none combat spells upon upgrade in tier/ranks that's all we can say now... Effect on combat spells known pretty good.... Imo and imo pushing from Adept 1 to Adept 3 make sence only if you have rare's to burn for it or you have nothing better to do with you money.
WOW how do you have mostly adept3 and master1s, im lucky to have adept 1s(anyone want to explain why so many silly scout abilities drop and never warlock i was hoping to get my dark distortion higher then app1 but noone sells it on broker it seems).
You need to be presistent with spell searching on fence and broker... I have all my warlock spells at Adept 1 or better except buffs (I learned my lesson lol upgrading buffs = waste of money). From my stricktly personal exp - warlock spells drops like a durt at giant/gnoll (Shrine of Decay) area in in TS. Dark Distortion indeed rare - heck any lvl 23 spells for any class rare as hell for some reason. At lvl 26 it do max 614 damage so it very worth any money seller would ask you
Lots of mumbo jumbo about low level spells which I dont care about. I do 400-600 dps on giants in PF/SE/etc. I do about 200-300 on raids...cannot imagine 600 dps on raids for 2 big reasons: 1) I have the biggest manapool of all casters on permafrost server but I haven't enough mana to maintain that dps, 2) 600 dps on a raid means certain death and possibly wiping the raid depending on the mob, whether it AEs, raid strat, etc. We dont raid/exp off of/heritage off of grey mobs so comparing Adept 1 damage with Adept 3/Master 1 spells is unrealistic. What is realistic is that on green+ mobs (we are usually tackling yellow-red btw...) an Adept 1 Dark Nebula/Devastation/Nil Distortion does the same exact damage as their Adept 3 variations...Master 1 of certain dots do more damage than adept1/3's. Also Masters drop on raids (usually) as do the rubies for my adept 3's. I am only warlock in guild so I rake in all the noctivagance masters.
Its quite possible to do consistent high dps throughout a raid and never run out of power. I will never do 600 dps though, it will probably get me killed most of the times, and its a waste of power. Given a choice between Grisly Contract (Master 1) and Invite Void (Master 1), pick Invite Void because it sucks up less of your hitpoints. Both have gives more power relative to health sacrificed, but Grisly makes it a little hard to maintain your health. Invite Void (Master 1), used in rotation with BSS (lifetapsof 50+) at a ratio of 2:1 will ensure sufficient power to last a long long fight. Of course you can still do your debuffs and Nil Distortion. Any health to power conversion below Master 1 will not work. Anyways, back to topic. Scaling is screwed - Steal Breath (Master 1) does more damage than Chaotic Maelstrom (Adept 1); Deter (Adept 1) does lesser damage than Flashfreeze (Adept 1). There are a few more, but I cannot recall because I never used them anymore since the lower level versions make more sense. We got a big patch today, none of these were fixed, instead Paralysing Fear is broken. Tried many variations of breaking the root (i.e. nuke, self break, dots etc), but fear never kicked in once. Fear is not my cup of tea since loot is always bugged, even chests, so I am testing it for the sake of testing since it was patched. Also, Aspect of Vul's message, really a non-concern, was fixed above the more glaring issues. So far, I have a few spells not scaling correctly from Apprentice to higher - Dark Pact (Adept 3), Boon of Shadowed (Master 1) and Bony Grasp (Master 1). Theres a separate thread consolidating the scaling problems from upgrade spells (i.e. Flashfreeze to Deter etc). Hope our efforts in these areas will get noticed and fixed instead of the "Warlocks do 10 more damage than Wizards at level 49" threads
I see you are talking mostly about non-damage spells. I use master 1 grisly contract anyhow, btw, because the only time I have a deficit of mana is during raids and there are group heals dropped anyhow so no big. I am not as much concerned about roots, invis, single target dmg proc buffs, etc. as I am about our damage spells. And not just our's but other's too...bugged spells of other classes were mentioned on the this same thread I made over at Spells and whatever else specific forum. Oh and for a glimpse of my dps...
Can you explain your experience in saying upgrading buffs is a waste of money? Because I'm pretty sure I'm getting about +20int at adept1 lvl of dark pact, getting over 150power for boon of the void, and over 200 power from Abhorrent gift. I would barely be mustering 10int and 300power buff (not to mention the magical resists you NEED and GET from these buffs) if they were all app1. The vivid seal line reacts wonderfully to upgrading...gift of the magi is not as great, but we get abhorrent gift, which is way too powerful in my eyes, but I can't complain :smileytongue:
Also.....HOLY crap 750dps....what program are you using? That seems disgustingly high! I have never heard of a warlock topping 400dps much less 750. Have you done this multiple times?
750 dps is possible for either warlocks or wizards, just not advisable unless you are confident of your group. Concerning Dark Pact, at Adept 1, it gives me +37 Int; at Adept 3, it gives me +37 Int. All other stats remain the same from Adept 1 to Adept 3. If you are talking about upgrading from Apprentice to Adept 1, then maybe you could see some difference (to me Appren spells = using spells below parity). I have all my spells (less the new Bloodline ones) from Level 20 to Level 50 at Adept 1 minimal, and I scribe the Adept 1 spells the minute I have them available, so I never ever used Appren spells from Level 20 onwards. I upgraded Dark Pact from Adept 1 to Adept 3 to see if there is a boost in Int, but apparently not. Thats the deal ....
750dps is not possible. Just think about, 750dps would be when you cast a spell that has 2seconds cast time (and our fastest nukes have this) doing 1800dmg. The only 2 spells we have that can go that high in damage are Nil Distortion, that has not at lvl45 a range of 1300 to 2050 damage at adept3, and i think even the lucky ones having a master1 are not able to hit a 1800 constantly. And Devastation. lvl40 trait DD as far as i would say maxes out at about 1000 damage roughly, BSS is already maxed at under 800. But both have longer cast time (not recast im only talking about the yellow bar that fills until the spell is cast) compared to damage, so if you are not able to cast a spell with 2 sec cast time every 2 seconds, its just not possible to hit dps for those values. Simple Math
Its really possible. All depends on the group make-up. If group kills fast, all it takes is a single Nil distortion from you and mob is dead. If its a group of 4 mobs, a single Devastation tick would be hitting 2k dmg each time. Its like there are many ways of soloing using a warlock if you let your imagination run a little wild. To me everything is possible until proven impossible. A galss can be half full (optimist) or half empty (pessimist).
Its really possible. All depends on the group make-up. If group kills fast, all it takes is a single Nil distortion from you and mob is dead. If its a group of 4 mobs, a single Devastation tick would be hitting 2k dmg each time. Its like there are many ways of soloing using a warlock if you let your imagination run a little wild. To me everything is possible until proven impossible. A glass can be half full (optimist) or half empty (pessimist).
rofl... sorry but dps is not defined by an instant kill damage. That would be like saying you can hit endless dps with a proc that deals damage when hit and you con a mob before you by auto attack that hits you and dies instantly as it was a lvl4 mob. Dps is damage per second not damage in one second kills
Yes this is right. Just because you kill a mob really fast doesn't mean you averate 750dps. 7500dmg/750dps=10 seconds? What were you using in 10 seconds that did 7500dmg is what I want to know.
i would say its just not possible. Devastation 2500, Nil Dist 1300 w.o. debuff (you dont have time to debuff ^^), Henevas ~900 and 10sec are over, overall dps ~480, your strongest spells burst out, tank hates you, you have mob since 9 seconds on you, (without that it disturbs or stuns you *g*). I would say only chance of high dps is group of some warlocks constantly kiting groups of 5 mobs with synchronous Devastation casts. Would be like 15.000dmg per tick for the entire group, but also takes time for the ticks, would sound like nice dps but being unable to do much the next 40 seconds.
750 was the highest dps I have ever done. My second highest is a 694. No...I dont use "programs" lmao. Oh...and these are not instant kill mobs...if you can instantly kill mobs in PF then I bow to your uberness.
All you have to do to bring a bit of legitimacy to your boast, Ranvier, is explain what magimickal strategery you used to generate 7500 damage in 10 seconds. Go on, we're all ears. Oh and by "what program" he obviously meant what parsing software you mimicked er.. used to capture the magical moment.
Not boasting...someone with Adept 1 versions of my Master1/Adept3 spells will be doing nearly the same dps is what the original intent of my starting this thread was. Boy has the thread deviated from that LOL....kinda... And I dont parse fights myself...Niabash does and he uses parser from combatstats.com I won't go into too much details but you can significantly increase your mana (and thus dps) efficiency by just casting the spells in certain order...we will keep it at that ;-)
