AA Switching > Red Message Spam

Discussion in 'Ranger' started by ARCHIVED-Neiloch, Aug 27, 2010.

  1. ARCHIVED-Neiloch Guest

    Was mulling this over in my head while not doing MMO related things. Why doesn't auto attack simply switch on its own when range becomes a problem? Too far for melee, switches to ranged. Too close for ranged, switches to melee. Certainly hope no one considers this 'skill' or 'difficulty' related, since it isn't difficult to do manually and doesn't take any skill. Just a huge PITA.
    The code is in there to identify it at least, since the client knows enough to spam us with too close/too far messages. I guess this also ties in a little with the fleeting 'default auto attack' option we never got. Would be nice not having to macro melee CA's that are subject to lag, or manually switching my attack every couple of seconds to perform fully.
  2. ARCHIVED-Seiffil Guest

    I won't say that it's something that can't be done but I definitely wouldn't expect it to be done nor would I say I want it to be done.
    My reasons for this aren't anything to do regarding whether it takes skill to do. Part of any game is learning how to position yourself properly, in EQ2 as a ranger, it's knowing where to find that sweet spot. In EQ1 where I played as a rogue, it was knowing where to position myself so I was in melee range, but out of AE rampage range for instance.
    It's not so much as a skill issue as it is in forcing you to pay attention to where you're standing, which to some people you could say that's a skill in its own right. If auto attack automatically switches, someone might not be paying enough attention to realize they're using a bow instead of melee, or vice versa. While that can be a detriment in it's own right if their melee auto attack is significantly more powerful then their range auto attack, it's just not as much of a detriment as them completely losing out on damage because they weren't paying attention. The choice to switch between melee and range auto attack should be a conscious decision, not one the game makes for you just because of where you stand.
    I understand what you're saying, and that it would most likely probably benefit rangers the most out of all classes, but I don't think its the way to go. I'd much rather prefer the default auto attack option be implemented instead, if they ever figure out what prevented it from working or could at least be bothered to look at the idea again.
  3. ARCHIVED-Neiloch Guest

    Well for rangers we would still have to check position because melee auto attack and ranged CA's don't mix. Would be a nice alternative to point-blank ability since they don't want to budge on that.
    Min/max DPS'ers and not paying attention also do not mix. So a person trying to do max DPS will be paying attention regardless of this system or not. At most it would up casual players 'i'm not really paying attention' DPS by about 500 when their main weapon is in the wrong range and the other kicks in.
  4. ARCHIVED--=Hoss=- Guest

    Neiloch@Kithicor wrote:
    Freaky. I was thinking about this exact same thing either this morning or last night. Is there a post about it somewhere else that maybe we both read?
    Like You guys already said, the biggest issue is that some might not want it because one form of attack is significantly worse than another. They might prefer to see the melee bar stalled for a second while they move back into range than to have the bow go off and get a 9 second delay before the melee turns back on. However, that's an easy issue to fix. Make it a selectable option. I don't think there will be a problem with people who care accidentally going an entire fight burning up arrows instead of meleeing (or meleeing instead of ranging) becuase its pretty easy to see when the AA bar says melee or ranged. At worst it would screw you up for a second or two. Personally, I'd have that feature turned on if it were available. It would clear up another spot on my hotbar too.
  5. ARCHIVED-Neiloch Guest

    I'd take the selectable default auto attack option too. Just seems like this stuff can't be very hard to code. Theoretically they could just replace the error messages with the code to auto attack. So instead of saying your too far a bunch, it just does /autoattack 2, or the equivalent in the code. Then they just have to make it where CA's don't trigger auto attack when its already on. So if I have ranged auto on and do a melee CA it doesn't try and kick melee auto on.
    Actually i believe that's how that 'leaked' never put in system was supposed to work. The auto attacks couldn't supersede one another. So if ranged auto was already on, melee couldn't turn on unless done by the user and vice versa.
  6. ARCHIVED-Yimway Guest

    Neiloch@Kithicor wrote:
    These ranges are not mutually exclusive. You can be in range of both at the same time. You need both buttons in order to set priority on which to use.
    I've also found some disturbing things to be true in game. For example your model size impacts the distance calculation for auto attacks, ca's, and ranged auto attacks. In that a larger model race can actually stand farther away and still be in range.
    It would seem to me the smaller races are handicapped in this way.
  7. ARCHIVED-Neiloch Guest

    Atan@Unrest wrote:
    Only exception I found has been the ranger mythical, or a AA skill or item that increases melee auto attack range (Reach, miragul charm). Its more or less to ensure a working auto attack is on and hitting unless you're something like 60 meters or more away from the mob.

    Atan@Unrest wrote:
    Figured that was implied since I or anyone else never said anything to the contrary. Never suggested they be removed or merged. Be nice if they implemented what they were toying with way back when, which was locking in one auto attack or another without it switching on its own, only if the user switched them.
  8. ARCHIVED-Neiloch Guest

    Learned Rift picked up on this. Friends who weren't familiar with bow mechanics in MMO's or MMO's in general but played EQ2 thought this was amazing and 'made perfect sense'
    Fact of the matter is most MMO's either allow point blank shooting of the bow, or institute some sort of automatic switching of auto attacks. Not some new radical idea. Its a commonly used, tested and successfully proven way to handle this issue.
    I have evidence, the opposition has speculation and opinion.
  9. ARCHIVED-Neiloch Guest

    Still disappointed something like this hasn't been put in by now. I would say i'm 'confused' or 'baffled' when these kind of obvious decisions aren't made but that really doesn't happen much lately when dealing with SoE.
    This current 'manual' system just isn't up to par anymore. Here are your options:
    1. Make it so rangers can use all ranged attacks at point blank range.
    2. Make Auto attack switch to melee when too close for range. Switches to ranged when too far for melee. Have an option for 'preferred auto attack method' for when gear or AA loadout make both usuable at certain distances.
    3. Continue to go without any system at all when numerous viable and thorughly tested solutions have been designed and easily implemented in other games or just plain theorycrafted by players.
    I leave you with a list of MMO's that allow point blank shooting or automatic switching. Just from memory..
    1. Final Fantasy XI
    2. City of Heroes
    3. World of Warcraft
    4. Guild Wars
    5. Dungeons and Dragons Online
    6. Lord of the Rings Online
    7. Vanguard
    8. Age of Conan
    9. Perfect World
    10. Final Fantasy XIV
    11. Rift
  10. ARCHIVED-Taemien Guest

    I'd like to see auto attack switch automatically as well. Its not a skill thing, how skillful is it to map /autoattack 2 to all the abilities? Seems more counter-intuitive to me and asking for bugs to crop up.
    If you're in range for both like say 3 meters or even within 0-2 meters with Eagle's Talon, it would default to the last action completed (like it already does).
  11. ARCHIVED-Neiloch Guest

    Ellyen@Lucan DLere wrote:
    But then my guy could be melee'ing after i use a melee CA when I could use my much better ranged auto attack. Then I'd be back to macroing all my melee CA's. That's why I would like a 'preferred' setting as well. So if it was set to ranged, it would always use ranged auto attack no matter what kind of CA I use unless only melee auto attack is usable.
    Bit of a unique problem because I can't recall in other MMO's where melee range overlaps so much into bow range when ranged also has a 'dead zone'
  12. ARCHIVED-guru0z Guest

    Seiffil@Permafrost wrote:
    You obviously don't PVP.
  13. ARCHIVED-Seiffil Guest

    Oakin@Nagafen wrote:
    Nope, but if you're disagreeing with me, then you want the game freely swap between ranged and melee auto attack as you run in close and run away from your target? You definitely should be required to change between melee and ranged auto attack manually in PVP, whether by hitting the corresponding auto attack key, or a CA that causes either melee or ranged AA to start.
  14. ARCHIVED-Neiloch Guest

    Why? Not only is this idea not new, its quite old. It's just another simple thing that's not in the game and it's ridiculous that it isn't. There's a difference between a challenge, something that is difficult and requires skill, and something that's just annoying and repetitive.
    If everyone can do it, then it doesn't take a significant amount of skill and there is no reason to have it around. If a significant portion of the player base couldn't deal with it easily, and you could tell simply by performance in battle you might have a point, that isn't the case here though. Takes about as much skill and focus to execute as using a rally flag. Luckily we don't have to use a rally flag several times in a short fight.
  15. ARCHIVED-Seiffil Guest

    I'd just prefer that if they do anything, it's just allow us to set default auto attack to range or melee. The main reason I don't want the game to automatically switch because you get too close or get too far away is that I honestly believe it should be a conscious decision for someone to swap between the two.
    It's not that it takes skill, but it forces someone to pay more attention to their positioning. To me this concept is almost like asking for permission to not to have to worry ever about your auto attack and primarily focus on CAs. While you still would have to pay attention to your position, with the auto attack automatically switching it could significantly lessen the amount of damage lost, because someone in your raid or group screws up and pulls aggro shifting the mob's position. It's not about skill, it's about requiring the actions to be performed requiring the decision and reaction of the person at the keyboard.
    I just don't feel it's necessary, while you say it's ridiculous that this isn't implemented, that's your opinion, I'm just voicing my opinion.
    With regards to the PVP point above that I already replied to, because myself and my opponent are jumping around each other trying to get into the correct positions for our attacks and get in close to land an attack while trying to minimize my exposure, you want that jousting in and out of melee and ranged auto attack range on both my and my opponents part to have absolutely no mitigating effect. In PVP especially, it should not be able to automatically switch without input from the player.
  16. ARCHIVED-Neiloch Guest

    I would have to pay just as much attention to my positioning with or without this feature. This is because bow > melee for a ranger. Any ranger who would just let the auto switch do the work (thus meleeing and not moving) while the mob rushes them or for other classes as the mob gets out of melee range and not chase them, is going to do worse than the person paying attention. Only people this would be a crutch for are ones who are severely sub-par to begin with, who MIGHT see a couple hundred DPS increase with it. Having this in isn't going to some how let people who are actually good AFK fight or be able to cut their attention in half while playing. Anyone who would is already horrible to begin with and have much bigger problems in regards to increasing their performance. This isn't some pillar of game mechanics that is making sure people are attentive game play. It is minor at forcing more attention at best and extremely annoying to frequent players at worst.
    It isn't my 'opinion' that EQ2 is behind here, its a fact. I've quantified it. It is the only MMO of 12 (the 11 I listed + EQ2) of top end MMO's that does have not a measure in place for this problem, be it an automatic switch or simply allowing point blank usage of the bow. Certainly isn't because EQ2 is ahead of the curve here and everyone else is still stuck using older, less sophisticated methods.
    They have had 7 years to implement something to keep up with COMPETING games and have done nothing in this regard. If that isn't deserving of mockery I don't know what is.

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