A partial fix

Discussion in 'Priests' started by quisling, Apr 19, 2018.

  1. Mercychalice Well-Known Member

    most raid forces doing anything t3+ are putting two healers in every group atm. that's going for groups with shamans - they're getting secondary healers as well. until the content is on farm status, I don't really see many folks, class aside, solo healing this until they're mostly t3- t4 geared. that's just numbers. more stats= more heals.
  2. Earar Well-Known Member

    but that's the problem.

    non warders are secondary healers. But it's not stated in game.

    when you play bard or chanter, you aggreed to be a support class. It's the core of the class (though chanter's core is also CC but it has disappeared).
    it isn't stated anywhere that druids and inquisitors are just support healers.

    so 2 ways to do it. state it clearly in the class lore. and change druids/inqui into more buffers (so shamans and templars should get less buffs/debuffs) and debuffers. and state clearly what are their role. 2ndary healers.
    or, make them potent healers like any other.

    I don't mind stuff to change for sake or health of the game. I just want to know .. want to be aware of it and be able to see it
  3. Dead Alt Account Member

    That's because the situation is an unintended result of poor game design. I wouldn't expect it to be corrected any time soon.
  4. bazstock New Member

    A fury is also a very good solo healer, because of spirit of druidism (groupward), the damage reduction (up to about 50% and higher) and other stuff. But some hits might be to hard in T3 right now.
  5. Earar Well-Known Member

    some fights with low incoming damage u can solo heal. On some T3s .. my HPS is barely higher than dps classes with their self wards.

    and some u can't. especially at end fight .. where surge increases.
  6. knine Well-Known Member

    Its not stated chanters are T1 DPS, but they do it.. its not stated monks are dps. .but they do it.. they goal, whether its been stated from day 1 in this game was to always roll with 2 healers per group, but as dps increased where you melt something in 10 secs its not needed, so they went completely crazy to the other direction and now mobs are stupid with aoe ticking damage and they want two heals in each group again. They want this expac to be a time sink so they make you do 3 factions to max, they make you do a sig line to access each zone, they for you to get 75% flagged to get into raid zones.. they will put you into a situation that they think is the way the game is played and either we quit and move on.. or we get onboard.. that's the new regime...
  7. Mermut Well-Known Member

    Except it's NOT two healers... it's a shaman and a second healer. If it was feasible for an inquisitor and a fury or a channeler and a warden, sure.. but all challenging raid content requires a shaman and, perhaps, a 2nd healer.
  8. Earar Well-Known Member

    lets put it simple

    templars can now dps more and heal better than inquisitors

    wardens do more damage than furies

    mystics were supposed to be some kind of tank heals but now are scout buffer

    defilers are great healers and great dps.

    look at what they did at start of PoP

    They boosted templar hammer for more dps, they boosted glory to now trigger group ward

    what did inquis got ? WDB ...

    wardens got big boost to instinct, which I love
    and they gave furies combat mitigation debuffs. Furies should have had their spells boosted a bit, they ARE the dps priest . at least they were

    defilers got damage increase to maelstrom and putrefy, while mystic got fervor buff to their CA (but less and less healers use them coz they are right now not good enough so wasted)

    so templars and defilers, classes that are really strong got even stronger while other classes got left behind.

    also there is no logic in how those buffs are done. What is the aim.

    I just love how LoL does with the balance changes. They always explain their goals and the reasoning behind those changes. Why X character is changed, because they want to make him better at that while removing strength on another side. People may not like it, but at least u get the reasoning.

    The PoP class balance didn't really felt like they know the classes, how they are played and what is the focus of each class.

    for exemple mystic .. ok they want to make it a scout buffer/melee dps buffer. Good with that .. but then make the mystic kit aim towards that. First change oberon .. it was aimed as a tank ward, it's group only, ST ... and that was the main reason of the spell.
    after change wendigo .. because the way it's done, it's useless for most mystics, except maybe solo. Also boost a lot more CAs .. healers, compared to scouts have the ability to choose CA or spells .. and with spell DC .. spell are the way to go right now. So if you want to make healers use their CAs .. u need to make them attractive.

    could go also on the warden, the epic 2 spell makes only CA recast 2 sec ... but they are not worth casting, and you can only use it on melee (at least your not stiffled) ... but you need to make CAs more attractive also .. or completly go rampage and change the real spells by CAs and remove CA from AAs. that way we don't have a choice anymore and we become real melee priests. also cyclone and hierophantic which were aimed for tanks become a bit useless if wardens start to be aimed as support scout dps healers.

    all that to say that ... we don't get the changes (at least I don't) .. we don't see the goals of changes and the goals of the classes. I don't get why a defiler can dps as much as a fury and outheal it also. and if wardens do as much dps as furies and heal as much ... and wardens use spells instead of CAs ... then what makes wardens different from furies (except tree and cheetah)

    we need differenciations, definition of classes, we need to see clear strengthes and weaknesses in healer classes. in the dps and healing part, also in the cure part.It's too blurry right now .. and all I am sure of is that I as a warden don't feel like I heal anymore. In raid I mostly cure and dps. my heals are irrelevant .. and my dps doesn't feel awesome enough to be really needed. And the warden dps playstyle is too boring to do just that.

    so devs really have a lot of work to do :)
  9. Earar Well-Known Member

    also correct me if wrong but spells like Oberon, hierophantic genisis or focused intervention feel like so outdated.

    they were already back in the days not used because they stiffled the healers and using all your basic heals was just as good.

    but now it's worse

    for Oberon, it is supposed to be a big big ST ward. but with BT and ancestral ward being good enough with a lower reuse and torpor having a HoT added .. oberon seems like a waste. Sure it's a regenerating ward, but it's only 16 seconds and 75 seconds reuse and group only (3 sec reuse on ancestral ward and lasts 30 secs and can be cast raid wide)

    hierophantic is only good for the mana regen, if somebody is too far from the tree. and since it's a HoT .. it's most of the time wasted. Unless you solo heal .. u need to run, or your lazy and u want to be sure the target has a healing. Other than that .. it's wasted spell

    and I'd say focused intervention is a bit of the same stuff. reactive with a 75 sec recast ... meh ... can live without.

    when u compare it to maelstrom - still OP
    porcupine .. at least bring damage proc
    fanaticism ? guess it's also a bit outdated

    in the heal department, they really need to look at stuff

    do we still need a small and big heal ? no
    do we still need as many heals as we have ? I don't think so. Defensive healers like warden or mystics or templars have a crazy amount of heals. it was good in a time where 1 heal wasn't enough to keep someone alive, where having multiple heals/wards allowed you to bypass some of the class' weaknesses.
    But it's not the case anymore ... so just ... remove heals .. make heal rotation easier and matter more. If I have a big heal like hierophantic or oberon with such a big recast on it ... make it worth it big time. like adding an effect on it ... or if you don't want to .. remove them .. it gives us some space on hotbars.

    same for the emergency heals/wards ... in a world where we have 100% reuse .. and 100%+ castspeed ... are those spells still usefull (except for proccing other spells)

    too many heals outdated nowadays. and don't get me started on some buffs/debuffs ..
  10. Revanu Active Member

    Oberon is absolutely amazing, its resettable with bolster, not to mention having barrier to use intermittently on cool down on top of max stacks and being able to maintain on 3 people at any point in time.
  11. Earar Well-Known Member

    but then explain in what it's more amazing than ancestral ward ?

    that u can also keep on 3 people. cast it more often

    on top of all the wards u have available and oberon doesn't give anything else than a ward.

    ok sure with resets u can cast it on more than one .. but why is it any more amazing than other wards u already have ?

    if it was something like torpor .. I'd say yeah .. I see the point. A single ward with HoT ... yeah I like that. It's really usefull. Oberon is 16 sec ... with all the layers of wards on one person and the BT, 16 sec is way too short. it won't be eaten, or partially.

    I don't play mystic in raid but I will check tonight on the parse. All I can say is that on druid, skin like wood (10sec ward on small heal) is beraly eaten in raid or when I solo heal in group. just because people have their self wards plus other layers.

    so yeah ... I hardly believe you when u say oberon is amazing. but I'll look into it
  12. Revanu Active Member

    I'm not stating its better than any other ability in the mystic arsenal. There are very FEW mystic that actually know what they are doing. you can stack all single targets on your grp, oberon, torpor, barrier x3, then only really have 1 person left to deal with, and if you know how to intermix totemic/attendant/sentry on top of proc'd anti ae and the PROPER purple rune choice for stoneskins, its really not difficult at all to fathom why Oberon still is absolutely amazing.
  13. Revanu Active Member

    go look at any top guild mystic and you will find that one anti genius that specs spitfire instead of spirituality. I understand your argument about it being less than stellar from an outsiders point of few, but you yourself said you don't raid a mystic. so you're kind of limiting your field of logic with that claim. Not to state you are wrong, but you aren't right in that facet either.

    Also, not to be cruel, unless the mystics you will be breaking down the parse of know wtf they're doing, its a fruitless investigation.

    Don't quite understand why most mystic take the dragon tree for self rez, they give up way to much beneficials for grp just for 1 mediocre death prevent that shouldn't be used anyhow.
    Daalilama likes this.
  14. Daalilama Well-Known Member

    The base issue of the argument is how the current mechanics of the game have diminished the capability of druids and inquisitor vs the other healers the primary culprit being Bleed-through. The issues being bated about have been discussed to no end since the issues crept up partway through ToT. Considering bleed-through was tested by select players from within the raid council at the time and also considering some of the raid healers within that same council stated and I quote "Reactive's are the same as Hot's" that should have been a red flag to many non healers but wasn't and also considering this same individual seemed to intentionally slow walk a push to address the issues with clerics reactive's inside Temple of Veeshan which was only addressed after a group of clerics shanghai'd a few devs in closed discussion about the issues which finally did address them for the most part. Why do I bring it up we are back again complaining about the same sorts of issues just with different classes...poorly thought out game mechanics implemented without a thought on ramifications on all the healers not just a few.

    As was pointed out previously druids were originally conceived as the damage reduction healer except the incoming damage in far too many scripts exceeds what druids are capable of dealing with. In addition, inquisitors also need some love as well. As Kaark pointed out the easiest solution would be to give druids a standard ward instead of just a specific damage based ward...but we get into the area of wards for everybody which may not be beneficial for long term health of all the healers. There really isnt any easy answers unless the dev team is prepared to make meaningful and incremental changes to druids and inquisitors to put them on better footing...but whatever is done it is safe to say bleed-through mechanics are here to stay as are hyper one shot mechanics.
  15. Clintsat Active Member

    Furies don't even get a damage-type specific war....
  16. Daalilama Well-Known Member

    Yeah true so granted the druids a full ward instead of damage specific one idea would only apply to wardens so yeah bit of an issue. Regardless something needs to be done.
  17. knine Well-Known Member

    I like to use Oberon on myself or mage in the group and can then cross ward any of the other mages with ancestral.. keep the damage off enough while it regens and then with the reset.. its kind of easy to always have oberon on someone in the group.. I lobbied to make the mystic orange rune give us oberon group wide.. or torpor.. or make oberon a cross raid ward.. something more useful than the one we have...but we all know how that turned out..
  18. quisling Active Member

    Not sure what this portion of the conversation has to do with balancing healing....As a templar, I'd like 2 more group wards, but that wouldnt exactly balance anything.
  19. SteveB Active Member

    Any offical statement would be nice in a form that is not like "we are working on it". Class specific personal needs are most likely not the topic here.
  20. Earar Well-Known Member

    well caith stated that a class balance would come this summer ? hope it's still planned. and hope there are some healer's change .. not just the usual bonus damage to profession abilities (that are so low on parse anyway that they don't change much of anything)

    maybe they'll give all healer % based heals ... :D

    did again PG on my warden to get the reset item. I kept healing and healing ... and all I could see was .. teammate's life going down slowly .. never up .. just down. was sooooo fun.

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