A DPS mathematical discovery! The best scout weapons are.....

are........ the ones with the lowest damage range and lowest delay.

I did my own research, at about level 32 I listed the ranges (dmg and delay) of ALL the Feysteel weapons, and found that there are only four different delays. (listed damage on top, delay on bottom) They are: 10-38/1.6, 18-71/3, 24-95/4, and 30-119/5. I simply divided those values up to get two values (the range DPS) of each particular weapon, so in this case, the higher the DPS, the better. Here are the results:
10-38/1.6 = 6.25 to 23.75 dps
18-71/3 = 6 to 23.6 dps
24-95/4 = 6 to 23.75 dps
30-119/5 = 6 to 23.8 dps
It is obvious from looking at these values that the fastest weapons also have the best dps, with the opposite slowest weapons ironically coming in 2nd with a high top range dps, but only 0.05 higher than the fast weapons. And on top of that, fast weapons which mostly likely will be imbued will have more opportunities to proc, more opportunities to get off a combat skill, more opportunities to kill a running foe, etc.
So please take this information as you will, it could save you some work in the long run
-Bluu

No. Scouts want 4 delay weapons.

Gaige wrote:

Why, exactly?

1. 4 second weapons give you time between swings for combat arts. You can time your CAs so that you do not miss any possible swings. 1.6 weapons will be hasted to 1.0 for most people which would not let you time your CAs in this manner.
2. There is also the crit factor. If you have a very high crit chance, you will want weapons with high end damage and a nice spread between the min/max. If your crit is not that high, then the smaller spread higher dr weapon would get you slightly more dps if it were not for point 1.

Thank you for that info. Does any other scout agree with this? If so I think I'll buy me some 4-seconders

Bluua@Nagafen wrote:

Now let's take into account that you have a 100% crit chance and zero crit bonus. On a crit, your weapon now does between maxdamage+1 to maxdamage*1.3, so now we have
39-49/1.6 = 24.37 to 30.62 dps
72-92/3 = 24 to 30.66 dps
96-123/4 = 24 to 30.75
120-154/5 = 24 to 30.8 dps
This makes it apparent that when you crit, the higher delay and bigger spread weapons are doing more dps. As you gradually increase your crit chance from zero up to 100%, the benefit gradually shifts as noted. Throw in a few crit bonus percents, and the difference becomes even more noticeable.
Edit: Hmm, though the average damage for the low reuse weapon is actually higher in this case... Hmm.

Bluua@Nagafen wrote:

Yep, just about all of us agree on the 4.0s thing

Yes, there is a reason that the Devs have made almost all of the scout end game weapons in T8 and T9 with a 4.0 delay. By the general scout majority, that's the ideal weapon delay available.

It is even more important for Rangers because we have the slowest casting CA's and <4secs would interupt or delay autoattack on a regular basis (not a good thing).

As was stated earlier, you are more likely to delay your weapons auto-attack with combat arts/spells when it is a very fast weapon like 1.6. Let's look at the numbers you provided:

• 10-38/1.6 = 6.25 to 23.75 dps
• 24-95/4 = 6 to 23.75 dps

Let's assume you are casting combat arts/spells between swings and with the faster weapons you delay your weapon on average by 1/4 of a second. This would give us a new dps rating:

• 10-38/1.85 = 5.4 to 20.5 dps

Also consider that procs are normalized against weapon speed. So although it's true there are more chances for a high speed weapon to trigger a proc, each swing has a lower percentage chance of proccing. I.E. if a proc is supposed to trigger 2 times per minute, then a 1.6 second delay weapon should have roughly 5.3% chance of triggering the proc with every swing, whereas a 4 second delay weapons would have roughly 13.3% chance of triggering. This is based on a one minute fight giving a 1.6 second delay weapon 37.5 swings vs. a 4 second delay weapon swinging 15 times.

• 37.5 swings x 5.3% chance = 200% chance of proccing over one minute or 2 procs per minute.
• 15 swings x 13.3% chance = 200% chance of proccing over one minute or 2 procs per minute.

Now as was stated earlier, you will likely get several delays in your auto-attack if you are using a faster weapon. Let's say again over the course of the fight you delay your swings on average 1/4 of a second.

• 32.4 swings x 5.3% chance = 173% chance of proccing over one minute or 1.73 procs per minute.

So your math may be correct if you ONLY auto-attack and do not cast spells or combat arts. As soon as you start doing anything that can delay your auto-attack, the slower weapons that are less likely to be delayed really start to come ahead.

Slower weapons have an advantage in critical damage too. The wider the damage spread (found on slower weapons), the more of your swings will be rounded up to max+1 damage. This is only really important for a little while, like from 70 to 85. Once you hit 100% crit and start adding on crit bonus, about 20 or so, the advantage disappears because no hits will come in under max+1 damage. But it is another thing to consider until you get crit bonus up.

Bluua@Nagafen wrote:

common knowledge.

I use to agree with the slower weapon formula for my zerker and ranger. But recently on test I must reevaluate this because of autoattack changes. Gear that procs and adornments that proc damage are doing more dps than CA's. With that said I think my new focus is going to be on proc gear, fast weapons and haste.
To truly evaluate this you should parse a level 90 toon on testcopy. You get full mastered, gear that procs and adornments. Haste, double attack and other stats will change between 250 AA's on a ranger versus 250 AA's on an assassin. You to be impartial you must post an average of the combined stats and combined parse rates while duel wielding similar weapons.
Old Man Dave on the Halas docks will buff you to 90 so you can properly test this.

If you were only doing Auto Attack damage you'd be right. But pretty much the 4s delay rule is solidly researched and played out.
Cool to see your number though.

BTW I'm almost afraid to say, I have forgotten the rule and am wielding weapons I shouldn't with my Ranger and Dirge.

Unless you are going all hard core and actually using melee auto and jouting in while melee cas are going then backing back out to 5m for ranged attacks it really doesn't matter what your melee wep delay is as a ranger, for all intents and purposes they may as well be symbols

glowsinthedark wrote:

Using melee autoattack as a ranger isn't hardcore... it's just stupid. And you don't need to joust to use melee CAs and ranged CAs/autoattack at the same time.

now that melee auto actually does more DPS for a ranger then ranged auto there are some people that joust in to do their melee CAs and do melee auto then step back out to do ranged CAs and ranged auto... it seems like more effort then it is really worth to me but some people are doing it.

glowsinthedark wrote:

I don't know about that, seems unlikely that melee AA can do more DPS than ranged unless you are counting melee only procs like CoB. If so maybe thats why rangers seem to be doing so poorly, even more so than usual.

training dummy melee auto will suposidly out parse ranged auto, plus all our ranged only procs, I haven't personally tried this, but will give it a shot and post the results.