That Chrol put in a real response here is amazing and regardless of my feelings on the topic...is a real positive. Thank you sir!
We do it all the time lol. It's annoying but definitely not deadly usually. (And I honestly didn't think it was actually supposed to be, given how annoying cast bulwark can be). Sometimes when it lines up with another script thing sure, but in most circumstances nope(even in raid zones - shoutout to lockmaw for putting bulwark on a non-tank group). We don't run h3 content without a tank, but even when bulwark is missed there it's still not deadly in most cases(now if we have a bunch of trash and bulwark is missed, that will probably wipe us)
The problem isn't that we have nothing to do as a "tank", it's that there's not really anything that sets us apart from another class doing the job and offering more dps, better buffs, better heals, or any combination of the above. The ONLY reason folks run tanks is so they don't have to flop a character in when there's a Bulwark or a Fighter target mechanic. I'm thoroughly convinced any class could do the job if properly buffed and supported outside those 2 mechanics. Fighters have to be able to fulfill a 2ndary role outside simply getting hit. We have to either dps, buff, heal, or a combination of the 3 that actually makes us viable alternates to the classes filling those roles as their primary function. Currently, we, collectively, do not in any scenario.
I don't think you understand how much bulwark is hated by the community. It is a terrible mechanic that is slowly killing the game due to impeding natural group formation.
I just wonder why with the AA rewamp the team working on EQ2 still decided to add an entire tank line in the rogue tree and have threat increases if in defensive stance for multiple brigand abilities if its not for us to tank. It seems like a lot of work just to never get used. It would also help the playerbase actually get group content done. Thanks for answering !
Tbf, there was a time when there were plenty of tanks and they didnt do T1 levels of dps. There were a ton during the fighter rune era as well, but thats a whole other level of salt I dont wanna get into. Making tanks a worthwhile spot in a group and actually giving them buffs that augment the group in a meaningful way would go a LONG way.
Monk used to be versatile when their dps was nuts during the reforge exploit era. Didn't need to change stance or anything though, I'd basically solo heroic zones with a healer and 4 bemused dps/utility running to keep up with me. Ok that was ridiculous but I could play tank or dps in groups and raid back then. 1: Sad to see the only good dev in the bunch dismiss this out of hand even though the OP raises very valid points (see 5) 2: That's tragic, and reinforces my reasons for no longer playing this game. Black and white fail conditions tied to the one miserable reason to bring a fighter is just depressing. How does this get through a brainstorming session with anyone at all thinking this is conducive to a good player experience? Or does that not even come into it? We used to be able to brute force our way through bulwark with good players, that sucked way less than this. 3: See 2. 4: It's the single most unpopular feature of the game (see the last few years of feedback). You (the devs) would be wise to plan it's total removal at the earliest opportunity. 5: Why give them a tank spec but then make them unable to counter a tanking fail condition? It's stupid. Sorry, but it is. Again, how does this get through a brainstorming session?
The answer is that the tank spec stuff *should* have been replaced when they revamped those AA trees in ROS, since Bulwark was already a thing at that point.
Most tanks did really great damage in the PoP-CD era. Damage was good in BoL/RoS. it's gone to crap the last 2 years. The only saving grace for VoV/RoR has been the necessity of Bulwark, but that's a crap reason to bring and tank and doesn't make the class fun. I don't impact most fights in any meaningful way. There are a handful of fights that require more thought than "use a snap". It's a truly repetitious grind of boredom. I can't even come close to a bad DPS class now. I get that Bards are in a crap spot, same with Illies. At least they bring buffs that people want around them. Fighters just exist. That's all we're good for. Power Through the Pain doesn't even proc unless you're the MT, so that's not even a reason to bring more than the absolute bare minimum Fighters to a raid.
Completely undoing the 20% nerf to DPS across the entire archetype that they introduced with RoR will help as well. Someone complained about shadowknights and berserkers always topping the charts in RoS and VoV, so they thought that monks, bruisers, paladins, and the already flagging Guardians to be punished as well. Now I'm burned out on weeklies and even the solo zones because it feels like it takes forever to kill anything as a monk. The whole reason Bulwark was even introduced was because Planes of Prophecy proved that tanks were quite literally not even needed as long as the healers could keep everyone alive. Maybe they should start programming automatic mitigation or DPS penalties for non-tank classes for trying to tank, while undoing the DPS nerf to the non-berserker and shadowknights to make them feel like they're contributing something to the group again.
Maybe you're unaware. Sks took the CA nerf that all Fighters got and received NONE of the spell boosts the caster classes received. Same for Pally. The dps spread between T1s and everybody else is too massive. The fact you do 70% of the dps of an SK is meaningless when that SK is 1/11th of the assassin.
Honestly, I feel your pain because a lot of us ask some of these same questions across the board on many problems facing the player base. The list is long and glorious. The problem as I see it is that DBG should have renamed itself "Johnson & Johnson" if that hadn't already been copyrighted. The reason I say this is because literally 90% of the problems we're seeing and commenting on in the forums is simply a result of a bandaid fix, not a real solution. Bulwark is a perfect example. Tanks not getting invites to groups? Let's just add bulwark to encounters and force the issue. KK..that's solved, now let's move on to the next item. Some of the real solutions for tanks have already been covered here. Tanks are still fewer and fewer, burnt out like a number of other classes with fewer and fewer members: power feeders, bards, etc. The real solution is a complete overhaul of classes and what they're capable of doing, but that's been brought up in forums for years now. I know DBG staff is struggling, but a word of advice: don't say you're going to do something and then ignore it. It begins to sound like the old fable of the boy who cried "wolf." To wit: class balancing, the Player Advisory Council, announced nearly 18 months ago and still no where on the horizon. DBG is still trying to do all the things they've been doing for years with considerably less staff. Look at what your human resources are and let that be the deciding factor for what stays and what goes. I also get you're all tired of hearing the comments.
Can you please remove this awful mechanic out of the game already? Seriously, this was added back in PoP to make fighters more relevant as people did not need tanks to clear content, especially in group zones. That was never really fixed as you now have one person controlling 6 bots to clear zones so it is devoid of any meaningful reason. It is not a mechanic that makes tanks "relevant", it does not add complexity (or fun) to tanking. It is an outright abomination of an ability that requires clicking an ability at the right time which after numerous tweaks still manages to get through anyway due to lag/ability delay and sometimes out of your muscle memory of clicking the icon thinking that you have clicked on it for only to it not register. As it stands, I simply can't think much of a utility of any tank class except that some buff other dps classes to do dps more and press bulwark. I reckon the only thing all other classes need is a taunt and tanks will be made redundant. If you really want to make tanks useful and fun then make tanks, tank again...fix defensive stats, make mitigation and uncontested avoidance (shields) useful again. As a melee tank, I should not have to wear ability double cast gear over flurry stats. Bring back the original auto attack back so melee tanks like guardians, can generate dps/hate through auto attack as well. The dps mod, multi-attack, flurry, accuracy, strikethrough made tanking unique, min/maxing these stats with block/riposte/mitigation as you geared up meant something. Your recent hate mod changes to +300% although were immediately helpful at launch of RoR but as soon as the gap widened with pet dps classes getting out of control yet again with more raw dps, 300% hate mod on fights that are heavily scripted in terms of tanking requirement (e.g. the dragon in badlands) become a chore and a half for tank classes that cannot do much dps on their own and balancing aggro between adds and the named whilst keeping on top of bulwark is an exercise in futility. If you really want other tank classes to be more viable in raid content, then bring back fight mechanics where their prowess was needed. I miss AE fights where a quality SK or zerker was an absolute must to handle one part of the fight. I digress, please get rid of Bulwark.
They will never open closed gates, just make new ones to rid this community once and for all. They dont care.
Why... Sometimes its better to just say yeah, bulwark sucks and if its here to stay give it to rogues too!
