Contested H3 Spawn Timers

Discussion in 'General Feedback' started by Zhevally, May 10, 2023.

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  1. Priority Well-Known Member

    I spent 2 hours across 3 different instances getting 10 stacks. I'm not wasting it on harvesting ; ).

    Also, can't just walk into a zone and pick up the buff once it expires. It lasts 4 hours, mobs respawns are 2+ hours. There are 6 total t3s. I'm sure you can do the math when you cant hold an instance open anymore.

    Not a derail when I'm supporting a change to how the zones and/or buff operate
  2. Chrol Developer

    Heroic Focus won't be updating off H3's outside of Takish contested anytime soon, but the duration will be increased to 8 hours in the next update. Also widening the variance on the H3 respawns, so you could see them up more often, or the same as they currently are. It depends on RNG. Haha I used the bad word.
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  3. Bentenn Well-Known Member

    It's really cute that you feel that is funny... what i find funny is broken mechanics, a now messed up contested zone (as you can see from this thread and discord) and just the mere fact that you all institute things you feel is right and most of you don't even play the game...Haha...../sarcasm.

    How about you just simply put it back the way it was.. kandar's delicate little purple collection will be finished by all soon anyway if it isnt' already...

    0 wrong with the way it was except.. .the names could've spawned a little bit more
  4. Twisty Well-Known Member

    I strongly recommend you nerf the maximum stacks it can go to 5 (at same power per stack as now). it's way too unreasonably strong of a buff in it's current form anyway. it'll still be way strong and extremely desirable even at half effective power. that way we don't feel obligated to hoover up 10 H3 contested and it will slightly alleviate the current nonsense situation (with the afk jail changes) with H3s basically being extinct for any group that wants to try to break into this content
  5. Zhevally Well-Known Member

    It's so easy to maintain 10 stacks with one kill a day.....you only have to kill 10 h3 mobs once then just kill one a day to maintain stacks(2 if you play for a longer period of time). Most guilds raid for 3 hours so just kill one before or after raid and you are good to go.

    Considering this adorn was in before Tuesday, and Tuesday before the zone was changed it already became significantly more difficult to find h3 mobs up........I seriously doubt the adorn is why all of sudden people are killing more h3 mobs again. (Most likely its people who quit farming beyond their kill for the adorn now wanting to see the cool new shinies)
  6. Twisty Well-Known Member

    the tone feels like a counter-argument to what i said, but i don't actually see any counter-argument present, so i'm confused what you're saying exactly.

    yes, sure stacks are "easy" to refresh at a drop of a hat, if you bot a group of 6 and there is an H3 mob alive. the mechanical aspect of killing an H3 named for any group that I'm in is certainly easy, but the non-mechanical parameters of this equation are anything but easy. buff duration going to 8hrs will help, but dropping max stacks to 5 will help to solve the named-absence problem multiplicatively, it's not this or that - both will help and make the problem 4x better not just 2x or 3x

    i play a lot; not in top 1% but easily top 10% of time online. i'm in position to see the night-and-day impact of having and not having a buff. and yet I do not have stacks right now. how? i didn't feel like jumping into a contested group right after raid - we had enough ppl that needed to refresh their stacks as is without me taking a spot, and instead afk'ed and went to get some food, which led to drinks and next morning underwear on head. regular Thursday in some parts.

    so, now i have no stacks. now i'm gonna beat some pots and pans, and throw a band together to go exterminate all H3s for the rest of the day. i'm the reason noone else on Majdul will get any kills today (hyperbole, but not far off). me. i'm the menace. and i'm telling anyone willing to listen to reason that if there were only 5 stacks to get, then that's 5 groups that will have an opportunity to go "fill up their buff gas tank" today. think of the childrenz
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  7. Zhevally Well-Known Member

    It is a counterargument, reducing the stacks doesn't really change the amount of kills people need, especially since it's already been stated they are increasing the time. Groups are killing ALL the mobs inseveral instances of the zone.........if you are just about the buff you don't need to do that. All you need for the buff is one kills a day. If you let it drop sure then you need 10, but you don't consistently need 10 kills a day. Nerfing the number of stacks will not do anything for the amount of kills most people need to maintain the buff in most situations.

    Dropping the stacks to 5, for most people, changes nothing in how many mobs they are killing. (Keeping in mind there was zero change to the adorn or the instance when people first started having large problems finding h3s to kill because they were down across the board)
  8. AvenElonis Well-Known Member

    I laughing at this whole thread - like it impacts less than 3-5% of the players in the game at all.
  9. Priority Well-Known Member

    So, you want us in there every day, killing mobs you need to progress when you do get the resolve to kill them?

    Makes a lot of sense. Because the gear we're getting from the T4 raid is better than this, but the buff is too good to not monopolize the content if required.
    Manafizzle likes this.
  10. Froakin Member

    Tend to agree with more with Twisty's perspective here, though not wholly the same reasons.

    There can be "optimal ways" to maintain the buff at all times, but the "optimal way" and what's actually going to happen in reality are two completely different beasts.

    Some people (myself included) still want to run weeklies. Some people (myself included) still want to run solos. Some people may say there's no "need" to do that, because there's "nothing to buy right now." Personally, I'm not going to start telling other people how they need to play this game on their own time. Even if I think those methods of play are ineffective, inefficient, inferior, or whatever term I toss around, people play how they want and have fun how they want. They play how they want, I'll play how I want, and usually away from people who play in a way that stresses me out.

    Heck, I still want to run h3s for cabbages (but that's probably going to take a backburner until the 8 hour update). Why? I want to. Sure, I could probably use something else for that weapon slot eventually. It might not even end up being best in slot by the time I get it, but I want to be prepared in case it is. Some might tell me it's not worth the effort, but that's not how I want to play this game. And I wouldn't judge anyone for not wanting to play in the "don't play to win" system of logging out to preserve a buff so they need fewer kills in a contested zone.

    While I personally log out to preserve the buff timer in between raids and refreshes, there are limits to that system. The 8 hours will help, but it's a bandage on the overarching problem. Hell, I'm planning to respec on Saturday after raids because getting a new merc soon. Going to lose all 10 stacks from what I heard. So that's another 10 mobs for one person. And also each and every time I (or anyone else who cares about keeping stacks maxed) want to respec.

    Am I supposed to never respec again? Is no one else supposed to respec and try new things? Do we never experiment? So we can carebear share the contested mobs? They wanted contested, seems like they are going to get it. There are limits to how much I am willing to adjust my playstyle for the GU.

    Sorry, but already logging out to alts to preserve the buff timer. Not going to stop trying new things and working to improve my character for it too. If it falls off, it falls off, and then I go back and murder 10 boss mobs instead of 1. Simple, effective, low stress. And yes, I could choose not to do that, but that's not the way I currently want to play.

    Point being, there are a lot of factors that can divert me from the kill 1 mob to refresh and baby this buff forever playstyle. Not going to tell people they can't play in a way that means they need to kill more contested mobs than I might have to because they didn't "Need" to do it. Not going to overly stress myself trying to protect it forever, like it's my child. Go, let the buff expire, and then get the stacks again, and have fun doing it!

    I enjoy the concept of the buff, and I was originally satisfied with the execution. The changes to the GU soured that for me (and likely others). I just hope the proposed updates are just the first step, and they eventually will make further adjustments based on observation and continued feedback. We'll see how this shapes up.

    P.S. Not looking forward to coming back to this zone next expansion over and over when it's dead fishing for buff refreshes. Especially since expacs also come with respeccing/experimenting a lot to see what's working most of the time heh. The adorn does currently read it will work in the next expac still heh.
  11. Monstuhr Well-Known Member

    There was already very limited access to the H3s for the buff (and now purple shinies). The new Varsoon jail massively impacted the supply/demand mechanic. In order to keep the buff up, I need to keep my main logged out until very close to raid time. This can't be an intended consequence of your action. This is a game - it should be played. It should not encourage people to stay logged out.

    Secondly, and I get this is "contested," but do you really want to create a situation where the top tier raid folks are monopolizing the H3 mobs even more than they did before? Like Twisty said, I expect our folks (and the folks in the other top guilds) will massively hoard those mobs to ensure we are buffed prior to raid. With 24 people, this is going to take the mobs away for at minimum our entire nights. This carries down to rest of the community who lose access to the mobs. Especially people who don't yet know the fights and are learning it. Sorry you wiped, but we need our buffs.

    My suggestion (because I don't believe simple complaining is productive): (1) revert the Varsoon jail. What is the harm if we spool up and hold extra instances. This creates more content and allows more people access to get to the mobs; and (2) reduce the number of people it takes to spool up a new zone. This zone (at least the relevant area being discussed here) is not large enough to maintain more than one group.

    Finally, I actually really enjoyed this zone. The encounters are great and rewards were actually worth doing. That has been completely changed by this artificial Gacha scarcity created by taking away extra instances.
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  12. Froakin Member


    Tend to agree here.

    Another issue with lack of readily available alternative zones, due to the perceived scarcity, the more competitive players looking to refresh will be more likely to work towards any unengaged bosses, regardless of where their actual timer is. Sort of a get it now because you might not get it later sort of mentality combined with, well I'm already here, so screw it.

    Before, the group I was with would just hop to another zone if we saw another group was killing in the h3 area (after a tell asking if they were doing trash or just bosses). Now, because there usually isn't the option to live and let live, it's more of, may the best group win. I also know that hey, if I am missing 15 minutes and a group is like, let's go kill H3 mobs, I'm in lol. Might as well get those 15 minutes back, just in case, because might not get it later. If it expires even by 30s, I gotta start all over on that 10stack, so might as well keep the tank topped off while the gas station is open. Again, don't need to, but it's more convenient, so that's what I'm probably gonna do.

    Also, with how rare the bonus loot is, and people still like their alts despite the perceived efforts to eliminate their viability this expac, it rarely ends with "just enough kills to reset the buff and leave the rest up." Usually starts as "resetting the buff" and ends with "the complete annihilation of the bosses because RNG IS SO MUCH FUN!" err I mean "fishing for CBOC gear for higher end min/maxing and trying to fit more crafted gear back in."

    I know I can sound grumpier than a guy who hasn't been to the bathroom in 6 days, but I did really enjoy the GU. Felt like a lot of good things were accomplished, like splitting up the CBOC tables and the +5 table and letting each roll on a kill. It was easier to gear up, and to catch people back up who either couldn't play as much to grind out those CBOC items, or just were supremely unlucky.

    A lot of good things were added with the GU, and a lot of steps in the right direction. I just hope they aren't going to double/triple down on this idea that mobs were too easy to access, and try to keep making pvp a thing lol. (Yes, I consider an overcrowded contested as basically pvp. You are fighting other players for the content. Fight me!)
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  13. Zhevally Well-Known Member

    I honestly think it's wrong that when there's only 2 instances available one guild can kill all of those mobs, and then hop to 3 cause they were holding it open(even though no one else can access 3, due to not enough players online) to kill everything there, because then when there's actually enough people for 3 to spin up for the first time of the day the mobs aren't up. Allowing guilds to hold instances open, meant those guilds got more access to h3 mobs while everyone else got less.

    It's actually been easier on maj to find mobs up since the jail, because when we are borderline a new instance spawning, we can almost guarantee now there will be mobs when we pass the threshold now.
  14. Bentenn Well-Known Member

    Killed all 10 yesterday and zone 2 and 3 and 2 in zone 1.. it's still not hard to hold open an instance. The OP buff needs dropped like twisty stated and really the zones need to go back to the way they were. There was 0 problem with it before the purple shinies came into play and really only doing the purple shinies incase they change that POS neck item.

    I've seen 5 zones open on Maj'dul, and I've seen all the top raiding guilds in all 5 holding them open when they popped.. and I had 0 issue with it. It was simply a thing to keep those purple shinies hidden that much longer lol.

    @chrol, reduce the buff to 5 and move the ability to get them from H3 instance mobs and there is 0 issue at all.. the way you guys have it now, people have almost as much hate towards it as you did the personal loot lol.. maybe even more.. I really hope you and @kandar aren't that blind to see that....
  15. Monstuhr Well-Known Member

    Well in the first weekend of the "Varsoon Jail" being in place I have been on for the past 5 hours (on an alt b/c I don't want to lose my buff). During that time, I have seen 3 mains log in for very short periods of time (basically checking overseers). Limiting the number of H3s up by not allowing more instances of the zone is restricting people from logging in and actually playing their toons...

    As for Zhev's comment about holding Zone 3 being unfair...Why? Why is it unfair that there are MORE mobs up that can be killed. It isn't that difficult to have someone in a guild (any guild) hold a zone open on an account. If we get a toon into a 3 or 4 anyone else can as well.

    What is a lot worse is restricting the number of available mobs so those people just trying out the mobs aren't allowed to do so b/c we top guilds need to come in and sweep out the nameds to keep our buffs going.

    This change is encouraging people to not play, to not be able to help out others b/c they feel pressure not to bring their mains, and creates overall frustration. Which is REALLY FRICKING SAD because I thought this was an awesome content update until this change. I actually enjoyed pretty much every aspect of it.
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  16. Bentenn Well-Known Member


    who's in 3 on maj'dul atm and the instance is no longer available on the door.... :) and then will pop over to 2 and 1.. get those purple shinies done though and then hopefully the hype will die down.

    @kandar the neck needs to be fixed though as it will never been worn for reasons...if that truly is the "purple" meta....
  17. Zhevally Well-Known Member

    I'm so confused by that? The instances drop off the door as soon as the prior ones drop down. Since they still do not stay accessible without the right number of people if an entire group flips to 3 that'll sometimes pop it off the door.
    We cycle through zones to find mobs on the regular - the change just made it easier to find mobs cause once you hit the threshold for a new zone that zone will have mobs up.
    I get that for the groups that can no longer just automatically go into a zone other people can't anytime they want to kill stuff its harder to find mobs, but for everyone else it should be slightly easier now.
  18. Tamila New Member

    I really did try to argue your view point Zhevy, and no matter how I spin it, it doesn't make sense. 50% of the raiding base pop is not logging mains in to save timers. You might have had a higher chance of getting more mobs in the last few days, but there is no logic I can use to make that valid moving forward. Having toons stay logged in and keeping instances open will in every scenario equal more mobs available to be killed.

    But then, this game is at it's peak, highest number of players logged in daily, we have nothing to worry about, Carry on.
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  19. Zhevally Well-Known Member

    More mobs are available but only to the guilds holding the instances open not to anyone else. That's why there's mobs for everyone else this way - because when we hit the threshold for a new instance mobs are up. The timer on the adorn is already being changed to 8 hours so those concerns have been addressed.

    It would be a different story if everyone had access to 5 just because some random guild had a toon keeping it up, but they don't. So before the change, we would hit the threshold for a new zone and all the mobs would be down due to whatever guild still had it up from the not before clearing in there. Now we hit a threshold and all the mobs are up. Everyone has access to the same number of mobs this way, and for the guilds not leaving toons holding instances all night they now have more mobs since the mobs in 2 and 3 will be up for them when the threshold is hit(but for the guilds that were keeping instances open they now have less because they don't have instances to themselves anymore)
  20. Priority Well-Known Member


    There are literally less mobs available to you because now i'm 100% in the same instance you are killing the mobs you want to be killing. There are less all around. It's like saying you closed 1 of 2 gas stations because you didnt need both, but stopped restocking the only open store.

    Actually, walked over another group yesterday that had cleared to the named because we needed a stack and another instance wasnt guaranteed, nor was being able to refresh my buff at will. Felt bad, but that's the game DPG wants us to play with this change.
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