It feels wrong to ask for content to be changed due to balance issues. You could make the same argument that high dps checks should be reduced so groups that have an underpowered dps class (cough, assassin, cough) in them can meet them, and while that's sorta reasonable, it's also papering over an issue that should really be someone else's responsibility to fix.
I think it really depends on your setup. Heals aren't bad outside of fail effect running without a crusader on templar with a mystic, but the mystic can't do much thanks to the appearance of high bleed through. So it's really going to depend on the whole set up. It is a bit of an adjustment though, cause like for example on the templar I rarely have a need to hit my long casting group reactive, but I have to use it all the time in h3s to make up for bleed through. Nothing has felt like its hitting too hard outside of fail effects(though theres some zones we haven't made it into yet), which should hit hard. But there is zero reason for wards to be doing as little as they are(because taking a second healer should not result in it feeling like I'm solo healing most mobs cause their main source of healing does so little in these zones). As an example, for terrene, in the h2, on the templar wards are half of my outgoing heals. In the h3, my group divine prayer(group reactive) is almost half my outgoing heals alone. I'm cool with having to adjust my healing strategy for zones, but not when it makes certain healers reduced to mainly just curers and buffers.
The entire thing reminds me of the original Diaku Corral and Scald. As soon as Furor fell off on my SK, I'd drop. It's entirely a class balance fail. There's no reason for some content to be nearly, if not entirely, impossible for particular group make ups.
It is an exaggeration, that's the thing. H3s are very hard - yes, harder than anything we've ever had, and halleluiah they should be, but far from impossible. Only thing in history of eq2 that was ever at these levels is soloing ChallengeDuos in era. Our group is doing them just fine with unexceptional dps compositions with 2 healers. Another group is doing them without a Crusader. It's slow going, some fights will be harder or easier depending on group specifics, tens of wipes on some bosses before getting a handle on how to piece together fight mechanics and tools available to our group composition, but that's precisely what you'd want from challenge content... Now what you're writing is coming of as just panicking. May be not your intention, and possibly you dont feel that way, but what you're writing reads panicky. If our group has plenty more to farm in H2s for 440r and cbOC gear to skyrocket our DPS back to H2 levels, yours does also - i guarantee it. Sounds like you're attempting to solo heal h3s off the jump as well - i fail to conjure sympathy when you're essentially saying I want it even harder, daddy. Ballsy and applauds to your healer, but it does carry consequences... I would enjoy hearing your takes on which fights have these dps checks that you're convinced u can't meet with double heals. 'cause from what I saw there is only 1 fight with 10/10 dps check, 2 fights with 8/10 and the rest are 5/10 and below with over half of the fights literally only having mortal coil heals as dps checks
Groups are based around having multiple dps classes so you can't really make that argument. One assassin is not going to make or break the group as long as the group also has a ranger, wizard, or beastlord, etc that knows how to dps. Only one tank is viable in a group so content should be balanced in such a way that all tank classes can reasonably do heroics.
You literally just contradicted yourself. First you say it is an exaggeration and then immediately confirm it is the hardest content that has ever existed in the game. RoR Heroic III content is an extreme outlier in difficulty even by challenge mode standards and should be nerfed immediately. Your own statements prove my points exactly. Super stacked groups not be required to do heroics. That is not a dps check, that is insanity. If characters are dying in spite of doing the script correctly then that 100% proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that mobs are doing far too much damage and need to be toned down.
The only thing that comes close to people dying while doing the script correctly, is sometimes still getting murdered as a healer doing the dispel on the 2nd mob in terrene(and that still may be a fail from getting too close) - and there's other ways to handle this to avoid it. [Haven't been into the event zones yet though so those may prove an exception as I know gift in the h2 still has a lot of damage]. I would not consider my group super stacked, but a reasonable setup to have From what I've seen this content seems to be tuned well outside of a couple mobs(minus bleed through being high), which has been really good to see. As far as difficulty I would say ROR H3s are not the hardest content to exist in the game. The Edge of Oscursis challenge was definitely way harder at release. Last years den challenge was super easy as far as challenge content goes though, so I can see why the H3 scripts may feel excessively difficult to some people. I personally find them fun so far, just not worth the effort for just more of the same loot we can get in less time from h2s, minus rare drops. [Also some of the h3 mobs do have relatively easier scripts, like as an example the first mob in night is barely harder from a script standpoint than the stairway mob in caverns] My biggest things is the reward should match the difficulty level, and they do take significantly more time than to run an h2.
Contradiction is a strong word, carrying an assumption with it that you've considered all the possible angles and concluded that what I'm saying just can't be self-consistent. I would hope you've just not considered that and you're simply overstating your case again because there are several self-consistent explanations in plain sight not even hiding. I'll walk you thru one of them. It is certainly the hardest content we've had in eq2 "as is" and I don't count Oscuris on launch because it was hard for all the wrong reasons.* Which is precisely what makes these H3s finally good-enough to be called challenge content in the first place. All previous eq2 challenge content sans ChallengeDuos has been varying degrees of disappointing in my opinion. I started to see glimmers of hope with Kurns x2 possibly signaling getting on the right track. H3s are tuned for reasonably doable by a very highly skilled and patient group, well versed in problem solving. Overtuned implies that it's not doable by such group with enough effort. Unless your use of word "overtuned" is simply that it's tuned over (ie higher) than challenge content of last 2 xpacs, which would produce no disagreement from me, but also unlikely that is how anyone would reasonably read that. So now, when you say it's overtuned I hope you see why in my opinion it's an exaggeration. More difficult does not equal too difficult, but rather finally closer to "excellent job", if the base level we're referencing for comparison was too easy (in my opinion). The transitive relationships are fairly uncomplicated here. *I experienced no desire to fight and win against Oscuris content because it wasn't challenging our playing ability, just very obviously and disgustingly wallet ability and it stayed that way for far, far too long. When it got the nerfs finally it was clearly past its time already, the shiny gloss of first impressions long gone.
also, opportune trolling from MotD lol Message of the Day: Welcome to 2023! Gear up and enjoy the ride!
Yeah, I was part of a group that spent a long time going into that zone after it was tuned, only to discover it still required ptw to have any hope. Once it was tuned properly though, it was great with challenging scripts. [Though most of the loot was pointless by that time, it still had the cool belt that gave us a reason to run it enough to give it to everyone]. But I think that zone is good for comparison. Most h3 mobs are easier and a few are similar or slightly harder than the ones from that zone. However by pulling them we can see they are tuned reasonable based on the rate they are dying and heals to damage(outside of a couple mobs that are being adjusted and the bleed through issue for shamans). People can debate all day on how difficult content should be, but this is why we have levels of content, so people can choose what level of difficulty they wish to engage in. I'm a huge fan of seeing a third tier of heroics to provide more options in terms of challenge level for people. The thing is, even though the scripts are great in h3s, and most mobs are tuned alright, it's hard to justify the effort they take, given we can get the same loot with less effort out of h2s. I'm not sure that the rare drops are enough to keep us motivated to run them given the drop chance, so I see a lot of people running them exactly once and then saying never again, which is disappointing given how fun the zones are. [Heck the ametheon overland mob is way less effort for the chance at a 445 charm if we want to chase rare drops].
I really don't think it was that they weren't tuned right, as much as it was mages, weren't tuned right. With a mage heavy raid, it made it rough. With a raid of BL's and rangers, content was just kinda blown away. Enough on VOV. My guess was a little overdrawn as it looks like t1 raid mobs will require 9350 and if I had to take a stab of following along, 9450ish will be t2 raids, so there are people ready to do T2 already. They aren't completely at resolve, but close enough. I've said it twice, I can see it both ways, but it is what it is at this point
Scout heavy guild still struggled initially in VOV, until content was tuned - hoping for this year to be better(and beta did not have such large discrepancies this year). Gninja said earlier in discord that t2 raid will be 9450. It is what it is, but can still ask for zones to get loot that makes them worth running. The achievement rewards was discoed for doing all the h3s and that isn't worthwhile. So now there's even less of a point to running this zones, which sucks cause they seem to have a lot of time and effort into them, but just don't provide adequate reward for it. We have had itematizion changes before to what comes from certain content during an xpac after feedback, so its possible it could happen here.
i think a fairly reasonable fix for the loot situation in H3s without completely throwing off intended resolve progression is have H3 endbosses drop 1 guaranteed 440r piece from their current table and then a 2nd piece with same probability that is currently assigned for the reward to "jump" to the 445r table. so you'll usually have 1 440piece still, but with same probability that that 440r is replaced by 445r currently, instead it'll now just add the 445r as 2nd loot piece 2nd part of the fix - the H3 mount drop frequency should be taken a look at. it might be fine as is - it's hard to tell yet just how many endbosses have been killed (but i suspect more than 20), but still only 1 instance of it dropping. it should be like 1 in 20 endbosses imo and would certainly suddenly give a good incentive to do them presto - loot fixed i'll run it at the very least until my whole group has the mount if i knew it was about 1 in 20 kills
Actually I just found out that the loot already works like that. the 445 we got tonight was in addition to 440. hrm it aint too bad then. guaranteed 440 vs some 25% chance 440 in h2 is already something, and H3 Gift was easier than H2 Gift when we breaking into H2 lol
If the odds were closer to 25% then it would be a different story. Not seeing anywhere near 25% on the 440s in h2. The bonus loot has always been an additional drop, but just really not enough to run the zones for as they are rare. Run them enough times and you'll see some sure, but when the main thing that would be useful from running a zone is something you may not even see one piece of running all the zones in a day it's really hard to justify spending the time on them. And I know not all of the 440 zone boss drops are the same pieces we get from h2 weekly, but that you can clear an h2 for your guaranteed one single 440 piece to be an item you already got from running your h2 weekly makes the 440 pieces less reliable too[I really do not think the h2 weekly rewards should be an option as your drop from an h3 boss]. For the amount of effort should definitely get a 440 per a person(especially if they are going to overlap with h2 weekly anyways), and/or more consistent 445 drops. I would rather even see a weekly that requires doing every h3 zone 3-4 times each for a guaranteed 445 per a person then having to hope to get lucky on rng. [I do not actually think we should have a weekly requiring doing all the zones 3-4 times, but am saying that would provide more motivation to run them than the current loot does, given the effort for the zones]. When I entered the h2s which were much much less effort I was basically guaranteed an upgrade every other zone(because two items per a slot on the quest), beyond probably getting 1 or 2 items from zone drops in that....versus h3s for way more effort if I'm lucky it's possible I could get an upgrade, or I could run all of them and very reasonable not get a single upgrade.
It would be nice to see the T12 crate flushed out with more items (like the prior crates) and added as a reward for completing the daily Heroic II quests entirely within a Heroic III zone, similar to the scale up quests used within prior raids and expert zones. If the T12 crate is too much, perhaps a T11 crate (if such exists).
We have problem with DPS on Gave Grange III on skeletons, our brigand have a half DPS compare to other mobs wih comparation with necro
