Please, balance raid desirability

Discussion in 'General TLE Discussion' started by Virgil, Jun 4, 2022.

  1. Virgil Member

    Since raids only want caster dps groups, there are a lot of classes that will simply never get a raid spot. Why can't DBG balance this stuff out so that any class is welcome on a raid? It's truly disappointing to get to level cap and then be turned away by every raid guild because you don't play one of the few classes they'll ever want.

    DBG can you not help?
    Riverbear likes this.
  2. Venser Active Member

    We have a scout group and mage groups. What class are you? Ranger? It's only fair though that guilds recruiting might not need your class... some guilds have formed way before varsoon even started. There's always light at the end of the tunnel, keep looking, lots and lots of guilds around.
    Riverbear likes this.
  3. Obano Well-Known Member

    There definitely no point in bringing a Bruiser to raid that is for sure.
  4. Ayodi Active Member

    Original raids in EQII were set with an eye toward the original 24 class's. 24 spots in a raid, accident? - no. If you take the time to understand how each of the original classes interface with one another, the ideal raid has......... wait for it............... ONE OF EACH in it. All of the most fun and proper raids in the early years awoke to this. Min-maxers & the hordes of the impatient will stack raids with dps & so forth trying to force a solution. All they really need to do is incorporate the 'one of each' reality, as the game was intended. Having said it, yes Sir Obano, there is a good point to bring your 2ndary tank to a raid because the Dev;s have set a place at the table for you :)
    Jaden and Riverbear like this.
  5. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

    For a long time, many raids would not take rangers because they brought nothing in the way of buffs, just their DPS.

    In this case, the bleeding-edge raid guilds on Varsoon may be very choosy about what classes they want. Look for more casual raid guilds! Or a raid alliance. Back in the day on Lucan D'Lere, my guild ran raids open to the server, and there were times when we had 5-6 tanks, which is kinda ridiculous, but we killed things and had fun. Heck, I participated in at least one all-paladin raid in EOF and we did fine. Slow, but fine.

    If all else fails, create your own casual raid force and invite folks to come play!
    Ayodi likes this.
  6. Mountbatten Well-Known Member

    It's a sad state of things that I can't tell whether you're being serious or satirical.
  7. Zenji Well-Known Member


    That's quite the assumption. At no point in time has anything lead us to believe the intent was ever to bring 1 of each.

    24 classes 24 raid spots is just an illusory correlation
    Sigrdrifa likes this.
  8. Sehenry1010 Member

    Every MMO ever made has had ups and downs for every class and how popular they were for raids.

    Some tanks would be better during certain patches, and others would have to wait until later patches hoping the game would change them.

    Every MMO has always had its favorite classes of each type and tended to keep those favorite classes toward the top.

    The problem is not as much EQ2's fault as it the player base. Sure, they could make some classes better, but regardless you would still have guilds that are all about min/maxing every possible stat and no matter what they will always take the best classes for that patch level.

    It sounds like you have only tried to get into raids with power guilds, so maybe you should try a more casual guild that is far more forgiving in the classes they take,
    Riverbear likes this.
  9. Ayodi Active Member

    You mean to say, this is the first time you have been cognizant of the concept of bring one of each, not "at no time", had it been "at no time", you would not have mentioned it. "Pop Corn." The Southern Armada on the Najena Server did exactly that for 2009 raid season. It was great fun. 5 years into the game and people were still trying new and unorthodox things. EQII is a crucible for new ideas and we should never react with ridicule just because seventy or eighty other players found a fun way to complete raid zones. Additionally I remember one Cauldron Hollow raid way back when what was all plate classes!!. Good times. And in reference to that word assumption, since the tactic was cannon, with at least one raid guild, your term might better highlight your own lack of, vision. No harm trying it anyhow now is there?

    -The Ayodi
    Jaden and Riverbear like this.
  10. Riverbear Active Member

  11. Mountbatten Well-Known Member

    Just because it's possible, doesn't mean it's optimal. Not to mention, back then classes were more strictly faction based, so what you're implying is that the devs deliberately designed content to screw RP and PvP guilds.
  12. Ayodi Active Member

    Nope. Inclusivocity (made up word & I like it:) of a all classes is not treating anyone unfairly. Quiet the contrary I should think. - It's more art than science anyway. Not sure what's got you in a twist, it was just a cool way to do things. And since when is the Dev's intention ever been optimal? What better way to showcase a class than to have a player make it count for something? And as for PvP, ........ well, er, ..............dodge ball sure was a lot of fun when we were kids. You just don't see many dodge ball leagues with ADULT play. That call of duty is a hoot. You don't see EQII on the 1st person shooter top anything list either. Pvp. (Chuckle) We may as well start a thread of how Raid structure is unfair to decorators.

    -The Ayodi
  13. Mountbatten Well-Known Member

    I don't know what gave you the impression that I was "in a twist", I was just explaining why your logic is flawed. And now you're deflecting with a completely irrelevant tangent about dodgeball. Nothing in that word salad you conjured together approaches anything resembling a coherent argument in support of your previous statements. Which is why I assume that it's satire, because it is clearly not something that anyone with even a beginner's understanding of game mechanics and class synergies would ever put forward as a serious argument.
    Zenji likes this.
  14. Riverbear Active Member

    The serious argument is as two of you have stated it is 1 centilla short of NOTHING to do with Balancing Raid Desirability
    (The Thread Title):
    1) Some raid guild a hundred years ago had too much fun with a very novel concept.
    ( Anecdotal sure, helpful, not so much )
    2) Some new player will grasp at the straws of PvP (not popular) and Role Play ( unclear how that syncs with raids ) in order to postulate what was in Devs minds. (if you meant Raid Progression, Einstein, type it out)
    ( Not probable at any time, imho )

    You both are gnawing without purchase.

    Revisit thread title please before tangential rants of pre-historic EQ2 or Irrelevant blather about self righteous assumptions.
    Neither of you is that good.
  15. Unrivaled Member

    I'll ignore the dribble, if you can call it that -

    There really isn't any class that isn't "desirable" at the moment in T5. Every class works decently, and can easily be used in a raid setup. Full scout groups will never be worthwhile ever in this game because scouts are best put into a tank group. It's also silly to not run 7 healers, and 3 tanks.

    Seriously - I don't understand why this is thrown around ever. A giant banner should be posted in the forums that says scout groups have never been good; and will never be good.

    You will never have better survivability than a true tank group with a dirge/scout. You will also never outparse a mage group. With three tank groups, you have 3 tanks, 7 healers, 7 mages, and 7 scouts.

    It makes sense and is balanced this way.
  16. Arielle Nightshade Well-Known Member

  17. Mountbatten Well-Known Member

    The only thing you contributed to this thread was stalking my character profile and then editing your derogatory response when you presumably realized how ridiculous it sounded. I'd suggest you take a look in the mirror before you start accusing others of irrelevant blather.

    The fact is, what the OP is asking for is impossible, in terms of balancing classes perfectly. There are always going to be certain classes that excel in certain areas, and certain classes that let's say, are more "challenging" to justify a raid spot for, and different guilds are going to have different needs depending on their current roster and intentions. These situations will be different per guild, per expansion, and even in some cases per encounter. I'm sure if the OP shops around enough, they'll eventually find a guild willing to take their class, but it just has to be accepted that it'll be easier with some classes than others.
    Zenji likes this.
  18. Zenji Well-Known Member

    Other than Ranger or Bruiser, it's pretty reasonable to bring any of the other 22 classes. Just not all at the same time, because different raid encounters should and do call for different raid comps.
  19. Arielle Nightshade Well-Known Member

    From experience, Wardens get left at home pretty early on. Which is too bad, because the class is fun to play. I'm not saying a Warden will never get a raid spot - that depends on the raid, but more often than not, you're going to take a healer that has significant group buffs - which Warden doesn't. Instinct, a dps buff, would give an viable option for a permanent raid spot, but it hasn't ever been made groupwide, although we've asked.

    When you start min/maxing your raid to get through content more efficiently, you don't take a heal class that can't buff.