Rares for Tradeskills

Discussion in 'Tradeskills' started by Notnasty, Apr 27, 2022.

  1. Notnasty Member

    Tradeskill toons do not raid, so there is currently no avenue for Tradeskill Toons to acquire the rares and the special books needed to make their advanced items. At this point there is no reward for a tradeskill toon to max out their skills. There needs to be quests specific for tradeskills toons that allow them the same opportunity to acquire these rares as those that raid. The prices on the broker for these items are out of control.
    Twyla, DeGlansSK and The Martian like this.
  2. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

    Tradeskill toons certainly do raid. A lot of raiders are also level 125 crafters.

    If all you do is tradeskilling, then you don't need the raid weapons and other loot.
    Rattophaxe likes this.
  3. Morukta The ORIGINAL Micro-Gnome

    You're really good at ignoring peoples points, Sigrdrifa. Seriously.

    The point was that it should not be required to adventure/raid to obtain rares & books for advanced recipes.
    It should be an option for those who prefer to focus on JUST tradeskilling, to have the ability to reach max level in their craft profession and still obtain all the relevant, necessary recipes and items needed - even if they stay at level 1 in adventuring. You know, like SOE had supposedly intended when EQ2 launched, but never implemented. And now the two sides of the game are inter-dependant at higher levels from all I see & hear.

    Saying that 'tradeskill toons certainly do raid." and, "...then you don't need the raid weapons and other loot" utterly ignores the OP's message. There was NO complaint about not being able to loot weapons or gear, just not being able to afford/loot the recipes and materials they may not be able to get without raiding or other adventuring aspect activities.
    Alioha, Twyla, AOE1 and 2 others like this.
  4. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

    The tradeskill recipes, patterns, and components you get via raiding all are used to make things with raiding stats. If you do not raid, you do not need these items. There is no reason for your hypothetical Adventure-Level-1, Tradeskill-level-125 person to have any of that stuff.

    In fact, everybody who does the VoV tradeskill missions in Forlorn Gist eventually gets recipes for the blood-Wrought raid weapons. Most non-raiding people are not happy to have these, they're grumpy because they can't get the raid weapon drop that's needed to craft the even better raid weapon.

    I'd like to know what specific recipe book(s) the OP can't get, so I can try to point them to where they can actually get them.
    Twyla and Jinksie like this.
  5. Tkia Well-Known Member

    By that logic if you're an armouter who also happens to be a mage why do you need recipes at all since you won't be able to use any of tthe products in hem? You get them because as a crafter you're supposed to be able to craft for others who can use the products. But you can't do that without access to the books and materials.
    Lateana, Twyla, Yenk and 1 other person like this.
  6. Dude Well-Known Member

    No, no, no. Just no. I mean by your logic, crafters might want to sell to raiders!?!?!?! /s :rolleyes:
    Lateana, Twyla and DeGlansSK like this.
  7. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

    SPECIFICALLY, what recipes do you people NOT have that you think are available in raids? What components?

    You can commission craft the Blood-Wrought weapons for others. Just like we could commission-craft the scepters the last couple of expansions.

    There's some oddness with mount gear recipes. Some originally dropped in raids, then stopped. I have recipes for which, so far as I know, you cannot get the patterns. Merchant's Denis now dropping completed mount tack, which is my preference (it would be different if patterns would go in the harvest depot and STACK).
    Twyla and Jinksie like this.
  8. Tkia Well-Known Member

    How'd you guess? I had actually thought about giving that a go?! :p
    Lateana and Dude like this.
  9. Denmum Developer

    I get that people feel strongly about this one (and always have), but this is devolving, and as some other member of the team tagged it, it is not a bug. Let's please keep the bug forum to actual bugs and move the personal opinions, discussions, kibbitzing, etc. to the tradeskill forum.
    Twyla, Breanna and Rattophaxe like this.
  10. Denmum Developer


    Ok, now that I've moved this out of the bug forum ...

    I know this isn't what you wanted to hear, and you want an easier way to Get All The Things, but in order for a raid item to end up with raid-quality stats, it has to have difficult raid items to obtain.

    Your "advanced" books are from tradeskill missions to make mastercrafted/mastercrafted fabled items. Those are the only "advanced" items you really should be expecting every tier, and we make sure that they are available to crafters. I don't have full control over how current tier ones are obtained, or at what rate, as they have to fit into the overall itemization plan for the expansion, but they are crafter-available.

    Raid itemization is, was, and likely will continue to be (at least for now) "special" and was never intended to be part of your normal progression as a crafter. Raid drops that have some tradeskill component were meant as a way to encourage raiders who don't craft to find a crafter to commission the item for them. (i.e., a way for crafters to be more involved in things without having to actually raid unless they are so inclined.) I know it doesn't always work out that way if the items are tradeable and they hit the broker, but the intent that crafters assist the raider.

    VoV:
    Things like the extra recipes you get from the VoV weekly tradeskill mission are an extra bonus. Raiding crafters can use them directly IF they can match up their raid weapon drop with the proper dropped recipe. Non-raiders can keep an ear out for people needing someone with the proper recipe. The other alternative is to pull crafters out of the equation totally for the raid stuff, and require some raider-only method of upgrading those weapons from one tier to the next.
    Twyla, Breanna, Smashey and 4 others like this.
  11. Rattophaxe Well-Known Member

    Firstly, thank you @Denmum for moving this out of the Bug forum -- that is not the place for general whinging and/or feedback.

    And I must second Sigfrida's question earlier in the thread -- exactly what materials and/books does the OP think they need that they can't get? No answer has been forthcoming in this regard, so the whole discussion is bordering on pointless.
    Twyla likes this.
  12. AOE1 Well-Known Member

    I can recall mount recipes a few xpacs back that non raiders did NOT have access to. So I guess non raiders don't need to be able to make mount items they get the pattern for or only "raiders" that got the recipe could commission that item? And that isn't the only thing over time that this has happened. The snobbery attitude that if you don't raid, you don't need to be able to upgrade or get better or produce more is just wrong. AND it is running people off. Maybe the solo player would like to be able to get that item needed to make the Blood-Wrought weapon in order to do more damage. Shame on that non raider.

    Just wrong thinking on so many levels. "YOU" people pay the same sub price YOU do and have for many years. "YOU" people used to raid but for whatever reason they do longer do so that means they are not as good as or as important as you are? I won't even finish that thought.
    Alioha likes this.
  13. Denmum Developer

    I can't really say much on itemization decisions as they aren't in my control at all. All I can do is explain the logic to you that has been explained to me.

    It is NOT that some groups, such as raiders are more imprtant, at all.

    If something is obtained by raid-only means, it means that the itemization team thinks the stats on the end product are meant to be raid-grade stats. If they make the item available by easier/other means, then the stats have to be downgraded to non-raid stats. They have been attempting to get crafters more in the loop by allowing things to be commission crafted, such as the raid weapon upgrades where the patterns are available from the crafting weekly mission and so on. Mileage on that varies, with results being mixed, but they are constantly trying different methods with xpacs and the like to keep the rarity and stats of raid items, while letting crafters be involved in some small way.

    This is also the reason why advanced and other special recipes this expansion were a matter of slow rng -- so they could justify mastercrafted this time having stats enough to get people their foot in the door for heroic content. If the recipes had been simpler to obtain, the stats would once again have been dropped to something that meant nobody would want to wear it at all.

    It is an ugly juggling act. There is no one solution that can please everyone, but they're truly trying to find the right balance. If you can think of constructive suggestions on how to make raid gear have the proper rarity to obtain while still involving crafters, please do try a /feedback. The itemization team doesn't tend to follow this subforum, and feedback gets dumped into the entire team's mailboxes every day.

    ~Mum
    Rosyposy, Bhayar, Twyla and 2 others like this.
  14. Kuulei Well-Known Member

    For many expansions, there have been raid-dropped recipes and / or ingredients. With this expansion, at the beginning, there were recipes and patterns dropping in raid, grant it that 99% were patterns for tradeskill-oriented items like \aITEM -1604146495 -1908999185:pattern: Forlorn Barding of Industry\/a or \aITEM 472689138 1516165040:pattern: Vacrul Saddle of Durability\/a among others that I actually discovered in raid.
    There was an uproar by raiders that all their hard work with progression was giving them tradeskill patterns and not actual gear.
    So I suspect the "common" drops from raid, were added to the exorbitant list of furniture and other recipes rewarded from the TS daily / weekly or just removed altogether?

    Now to address the OP
    1. I have 10 level 125 crafters on Maj`Dul and I raid 4 nights per week on my Carpenter. Beginning with KA expansion where BiS (Best in Slot) cloak was the grandmaster cloak from the tradeskill timeline. Raiders became Tradeskillers if they were not one already (most have always been tradeskillers but this expansion forced non-tradeskill raiders to come to the dark side!)
    2. There are no recipes in raid anymore and there were never any rares in raid. The ONLY item that drops in raid and heroic II zones, is the actual weapon that is used as part of the special Blood-Wrought recipes, via commission. The tradeskiller has the upper-hand here as they can get the one-use recipe and weapon mold only from the tradeskill weekly quest, allowing them to profit by selling their services or molds.
    3. Anyone can harvest the rares out in the overland zones, get from pack pony, houseplant and now the overseers.
    Jinksie likes this.
  15. Jinksie Well-Known Member

    The only thing I can think of is way back to the Tears of Veeshan expansion where you could get crafting ingredients and even a tradeskill apprentice (journeyman) from the raid zones. That was some time ago, though and I know in my guild, we have a decent amount of those old ingredients just collecting dust in our harvest depot. I cannot think of anything currently. Also note, the Blood-Wrought weapons sometimes drop from heroic zones, so it is not necessarily raid only. I got my first two hander from Dedraka's Descent that was upgraded.
    Twyla and Hartsmith like this.
  16. Bhayar Well-Known Member

    This is the kind of communication breakdown I used to discuss in classes about effective communication. There are people in this game who create Tradeskill toons (a lot of us) to craft stuff for use by our raiding toons. He wasn't implying that people who raid don't tradeskill. The converse is actually quite accurate, however. He wasn't referring to weapons and gear. He was referring to recipes that drop in raid that he (and others) can't get so they can craft something for a toon that does. I don't ever refer to my raid toons as Tradeskill toons even though all of them over the years have also been max crafters.
    Alioha likes this.
  17. Kuulei Well-Known Member

    There are no recipes dropping in current raid content, so they are not missing anything.
  18. Bhayar Well-Known Member

    Missed the point by a mile, haha.
  19. Kuulei Well-Known Member

    Actually not sure what the point is. I keep reading the OP's post and it pretty much makes no sense. They complain about rares dropping in raid and that they are too expensive on the broker. I really have no clue what they are talking about.
    Notnasty never did return to this thread they started, so more than likely they were trolling?
  20. Dude Well-Known Member

    Maybe. Also may have just not liked the answer. /shrug