Guardian

Discussion in 'Fighters' started by RoseGold, Mar 13, 2020.

  1. AvenElonis Well-Known Member

    I have yet to see a raid guild look to "recruit" a guardian in past year or longer, they all want Zerkers.
  2. Arclite Well-Known Member

    To be honest, this has been the case for a while now. I can't recall guards being recruited as the go to tanks for a few years and the reason primarily is due to their lower numbers in general and even lower for those who can and/or able to main tank. What you see now are the long standing guards in guilds who either have been there for years or just move about quietly depending on who is willing to take them in. They were never the easiest class to play and and master and are at the lowest end of the tank dps class, so most guilds will probably not see them as an ideal candidate unless they have some solid pedigree. That said, if played right, they can out class many other tank classes but sadly the game is just too dependent on inflated stats that i would see very few players rolling a guard and going the distance.
    Drona likes this.
  3. Drona Well-Known Member

    With each expansion the role of than tank has been eroded. This is why no one really looks for a Guardian. People are looking for Zekers due to their buffs and not because they are better tanks. The best tank all around tank in BoL is summoner pet. Sadly its not a joke!

    The issue is people don't really like to play tanks. With EQ2's dwindling populations, there are few and fewer people willing to play tanks so the dev have no choice but to eliminate the role of the traditional tank from the game.
  4. AvenElonis Well-Known Member

    Well block is broken, Mitigation doesn't seem overly required and bulwark was not upgraded from CD - I have done what I can with the class. And Drona is right, best tank in the game is BL pets (not that BL are the "class" to be atm).

    I will continue to play my guardian, but it would be nice to "good" at something.
    Agarth and Blazen like this.
  5. Revanu Well-Known Member

    “Better tanks” is subjective, there is no definitive better tank.
    Blazen likes this.
  6. AvenElonis Well-Known Member

    @ revanu - not look to be a definitive better tank - just competitive with zerkers :)
  7. lcubanol New Member

    A lot of these comments on the current state of tanks are not accurate. A well played guardian can be the highest parsing tank next to monks. Sks can do really well too. But it’s a skill set in itself to know how to parse like that. Guardians can Max their flurry and ADC which can make them extremely powerful, plus their broken 2.0 ability.

    But I’ll agree that berserkers are most desirable because of their group utility. Mobs in challenge raid zones start hitting hard again so guards can shine there.
  8. Arclite Well-Known Member

    Not entirely accurate i am afraid.

    Any tank class with all stats (such as 10k dps mod/ 2-3K MA with 180k+ potency + decent cb and fervor with all runes and levelled up ascensions) will smoke guardians on a parse provided they know how to play them. Very few people have played guards over the years (by that i mean raid main tanking with a guild on active content and not armor dump on alts) and there are even fewer now who are experienced to know all of this. Guards can be excellent on burst dps on a single target mob with their "OP 2.0 ability. Once the ascensions go away and that epic OP buff goes down, our dps drops dramatically because of our absolute trash combat arts. What you are then doing dps is with auto attacks and red adorn procs -- pretty much like any other class. Those stats above come at the expense of making comprises in other areas -- you lose some key stats going all high on dps mod which are not the ideal case if you are main tank but very good if you are off-tank and only come into play on deaths and/or tank swaps.

    Zerkers are far superior to guards, again based on class stats/ascensions + experience on playing them and their group utility. Flurry on guard is good but people incessantly harp on about guard flurry where with 3 items any class can have enough to do the content and be fine with it. Moreover, flurry only comes from focused offensive stance, remove that on ae fights and you will be lucky to outparse healers.

    Lastly, no challenge mob hits hard enough for a guardian to be the go to tank class. Block chance and mitigation almost feels like a tacked on stat with no real benefit in this expansion and you can bet your bottom dollar on the case that it is deliberately made this way because how broken the raids were and still are in this expansion.

    The only very hard hitting mob comes from a heroic zone and that is the last challenge boss in Diaku coral.
    Agarth likes this.
  9. Argosunited Well-Known Member

    Sorry if this quest line has been mentioned but I couldn't see it.
    The Panda quests are a must for all toons, best part is you only need to do it once and the rewards become account wide.
    You'll need the stats from the stuff you get once the line is finished.
    https://eq2.fandom.com/wiki/The_"Travels"_of_Yun_Zi_Timeline
  10. Priority Well-Known Member

    Mitigation and block are useless because of a failure of the mechanics dev, not because of the state of raids. Gninja thought raids were going to be fine when the expansion launched, and itemization/mechanics changes were completed long before that point.

    None of the plate tanks are difficult to play, so claiming guardian has some skill ceiling the others don't is silly.

    Thirdly, there's a BIG difference between 141 flurry and 211. Especially on a class that has a base wdb buff most other tanks done and can DW. You also get 50% CA double cast that, as of CD, stacked with ADC. I haven't tested it in BoL but I don't remember any changes regarding the recasting affect from any patch notes.

    Guardian is still leaps and bounds above the crusader classes and bruiser in terms of overall desirability in tanking and significantly easier to parse with simply due to free flurry.
  11. Arclite Well-Known Member

    There is a skill ceiling on every class bar beastlords. Lost count on people who are geared to the max and meet key stat checks but can't hold a candle to others who are also at the same level of gear/stats but know what they are pressing.

    Guards do not have a wdb buff that comes close to what the zerkers have. No idea where you got the 50% ca double cast from.

    As for guardian being leaps and bounds above the crusader classes then that is a very subjective statement. The crusaders I know completely destroy guards in dps and do a fantastic job on surviving as well.

    They are not "significantly" easier to parse with just because of flurry by a long shot. Our spike damage comes from ascensions. Once they disappear you will see a substantial drop in dps. The auto attacks come into play only when you run a high dps mod with at least 2k MA with trucks load of cb and potency. Any guard tanking right now would know that you will not be able to run a high dps mod with 2k MA w/o losing other stats easily.

    To make flurry a standout feature for an argument of guardian reigning supreme is fallacious to say the least.
  12. Priority Well-Known Member


    First: Focused Offensive; read it. Grants a 50% chance to instantly recast any single target offensive Combat Art the guardian uses. You're welcome.

    I would completely destroy you on a parse with my SK, it doesnt change the fact that's absolutely useless because crusaders have so few tools in comparison to warriors in terms of staying alive. Sure, they can do "fine", but when it hits the fan, you want a warrior.

    ANY challenge mob is significantly easier to parse on with an autoattack focused character than one that relies on spells/abilities. That's a fact, if you don't believe that, you tank nothing of consequence.

    Just about every class, ALL of the tanks, spike with ascensions. Stop pretending you're special in that regard.

    I'm not sure what you think Potency has to do with autoattack, but that's funny. Also, what stats do you lose gearing for autoattack? There's literally nothing else worth gearing for. The potency/CB is the same regardless of stat arrangement.
  13. Arclite Well-Known Member

    Calm down slick.

    1. I am going by what you said and you did not mention focused offensive.

    2. any tank class can destroy a guard on parse so congratulations you can do it too on your sk. Staying alive, yes crusaders can do it. If you can't then that's your prerogative.

    3. ......o_O

    4. ......o_O

    5. I concede, i was rounding up all stats and potency came into it.
  14. Priority Well-Known Member

    1.) If you don't know your class abilities from a description, especially one on the guard like Focused, idk what to tell you.

    2.) Again, if you think Crusaders are in any way comparable to Warriors in terms of surviving, you're not doing any content worth mentioning. Can a crusader do it? Sure, it still takes a hell of a lot more work than hitting tower of stone/Last Man/perfect counter. Take that on top of being able to DR your group for 50%, thus saving wards for yourself.

    3.). Combat Mitigation is a thing, it doesn't affect Autoattack. Your auto damage stays the same, while ability damage goes down. Classes that rely on auto for the bulk of their damage take less of a hit. It's literally math, not opinion.

    4.). I don't understand your confusion here. How many classes hit as hard as ascensions with their profession arts? 6-7? That's still most, and encompasses ALL tanks.
  15. Melt Actually plays the game

    ...no.

    If you, as a guardian, are getting outparsed by a bruiser or pally...
  16. Arclite Well-Known Member

    Never seen a bruiser in a long time so no comments. But from the other guilds i have seen pallies are way higher than any other tankc classes. These are top 5 ww guilds if that means anything.
  17. Arclite Well-Known Member

    1. Yes the ability to not recall a guardian ability from memory from a vague description (if you can call it that) must mean an illustration of inept skill in knowing the class....

    2) They are and the content is sufficiently worth mentioning in your circles. If you reverse the argument then sure a guardian can do a lot of dps, is it more work, yes? Is the content that damage heavy in BoL for that DR to matter so much so that crusaders are redundant? A subjective statement to say the least.

    3). So with that premise all meless classes take less of a hit because they rely on auto attacks? Does the guard gain an unfair advantage just because they can have 211% flurry? Hard to qualify this as any mathematical evidence.

    4). So do crusaders, monks, pallies and any class with upgraded spells.

    I think we have exhausted the mileage out of this discussion and given that you are entitled to your opinion as i am, for the purpose of keeping this thread civil, I will part with the following statement.

    "Guards are not at any significant advantage for just having copius amount of flurry. All the other tank classes (can't comment on brusiers as not seen any) can do equally good job depending on the player skill and stats and just so we are clear, im referring to challenge raid content in Halls -- if that qualifies as "worth mentioning".
  18. Drona Well-Known Member

    I was initially following the arguments but now I am confused. Are we now saying that Guards don't have better survivability than Crusaders? Then I respectfully disagree :)

    As for DPS, a SK can out parse a Guard but then a Monk will destroy us both! This is personal opinion based on me playing a SK, Guard and Monk. Can't really comment on Paladins or Zekers.
  19. lcubanol New Member


    What what top 5 ww guilds are you talking about? Two of tanks posting in this thread are top 5 ww tanks, Priority is FoE and I'm in Resistance.

    To say Guards do not carry a significant advantage for flurry is just wrong in every way, 211 is a big deal compared to 141. If you stick a guardian and a Zerker with equal stats and group setup, the guardian will win. Guardians can run flurry organically and redirect their gear to max ADC, which currently carries a lot more potency. The gap will be even more noticeable now with summer ethereal gear not having flurry stats. Zerker CA's are not superior to Guardians, outside of the new spell. But the recast time on your 2.0 and the ability recast on focused offensive more than makes up for the difference.

    We had one of our other Zerkers momentarily swap to guardian and absolutely crushed it...I think you might be missing something. Ill agree with Priority, if you had to be reminded about focused offensive, a class defining ability, you clearly do not know guardians well, which would explain why you aren't parsing. You seem very sure of yourself when you have multiple experienced tanks countering you.....now in another light, fill free to link your profile on wire and we can probably give you some pointers.

    Future Guardians, you will be fine.
    Blazen and Priority like this.
  20. Arclite Well-Known Member

    Thank you for your contribution to this thread...