Is DB Trying To Rid Game Of Casual Players?

There has been much discussion, on these forums, about the direction DB has been taking the game--especially with the release of BoL.I have heard players talk about how easy it is to do the sig line and others talk about how impossible it is. I got curious and decided to see if I could do the sig line solo, with a healer, or if I would have to stand around begging for help like I had to do with the BoL access quest.

The first few over-land quests were easy enough so I was encouraged that it wasn't going to be as bad as some players were saying. Then I got to the first instance.

I was wearing all the gear I had either gotten from the chest, or through questing, and I assumed that would allow me to do the instance with my merc. Wrong. Well, maybe I could have finished the zone by 2021 but I wouldn't take bets on it.

So I asked for help and quickly got it. It took two tries but I finally got through the instance just to find out there was another one--a heroic one, I had to do. I checked my gear and realized that was never going to happen without more help.

I again asked for help but got no response. So I logged to give myself a chance to calm down and not rage quit.

Yes, I know it is an emotional shortcoming, of mine, that I despise having to ask for help but it is in the DNA of almost every American. We were brought up to be independent. It was beaten into our heads by our parents and teachers and that changed the expression of our genes regulating independence. JFK extolled us to ask not what the country could do for us but what could we do for the country. It was our duty to give--not receive. In other words, help--don't ask for help.

So we became independent and asking for help is now an insult to our self esteem as independent beings. So it deeply hurts to ask for help and that hurt gets compounded when no one answers our cries for help.

I'm not claiming that highly-skilled players, with maxed spells, can't solo the instances. And if we could just skip the sig line, like I've done so many times in the past, there wouldn't be a problem. But our ability to fly is contingent on finishing the sig line. And as many crafters have found out, trying to do the TS sig line, without a mount, is incredibly frustrating and time consuming.

For unlike older expansions, where there was no flying, BoL is a nightmare of graphics just waiting to grab you in its clutches so you have to zone out to get free. I've been there and done that and it wasn't fun. You also need some form of safe fall which some players may not have.

After giving myself adequate time to think about the situation I went to Wiki to see what other quests had to be completed in order to fly in BoL It didn't take me long to realize that DB was either tune deaf to the abilities of average players or they want to rid the game of casual players who are unwilling to devote their lives, and money, to playing a game.

I don't know which is the case here. But if you want to retain your causal-player base you can start by making the named mobs drop better loot if a player helps another player get through the signature instances. It is easy enough to check and see if one player has the sig quest and adjust the loot table accordingly. I'm more than happy to let helpers take all the loot they want for helping me out. I think most other players are the same way but the helper can insist on loot privileges if that is the over-riding reason for helping.

However, if the goal is to rid the game of casual players than just keep things the way they are. It has been working admirably in the past few years judging by the current player base. The frustration level, you have been inducing in casual players, is apparently over riding the dopamine high of intermittent rewards, which has allowed many players to quit and enjoy real lives or at least go on to friendlier games.

I'm hoping getting rid of causal players isn't the goal of DB and that you will make changes to the BoL sig instances to make them more accessible to causal players. Player success should always be the main goal of every game. I hope you can make that happen with these instances.

Not sure what timeline youre doing but none of the timeline require heroic instances and as for being able to do the solo zones, im now upto no 6 toon running thru no help and only started with gear from the chest in Griegs Spire (so far Inq, Swash, Wiz, Coe absolutely no problems, Defiler was a bit slower) Fury not upto solos yet but considering how everything else is melting in mass pulls dont see a prob with that one either.
I understand some people do have problems and are slower on reactions etc but to say that its not solo friendly well thats not quite right

did you do the repeatable quest in the blinding to get level 120. it only takes a few repeats as you get 1,2 or 3 levels per run.
I don't play a healer, so can't comment on how fast you will do the instances, but it was posted previously that they adjusted healers damage in said instances to help make them faster.

BoL is the most casual expansion they have every produced. Do some of the overland drop quests for better gear if you are having trouble with solo instances. The mobs in the solo instances may be labeled "heroic" but they can actually be solo'ed.

I disagree with this 100%
Yes, you can get t1 heroic gear via solo actions. But you NEED that t1 heroic gear to break into solos...
You also need to plat infuse every single piece of gear at every step.
Doable, yes. Casual friendly? Not my experience with most people that call themselves casual.

Got to say those first 2 solo instances (yes, Santus Seru, I'm looking at you) are a nightmare. I have completed them on 3 toons and I'm sure I will on my other 110's when I level them but I now avoid them like the plague. Can I complete them, sure. Does it take me hours, no. Do I need help, no. But they are definitely the most discouraging thing to encounter while doing the signature line. I can understand how these might be overwhelming for the more casual players.

This is 95% wrong. The key to this expansion is doing the very solo/casual player friendly achievements. You absolutely do NOT need heroic gear to get into heroics. The correct 5%? Yes, you will want to plat infuse the gear that you finally get from all the achievements, but you don't need to plat infuse the gear along the way. I've now done this on a swashbuckler and an illusionist. They are completely ready for heroics with 3505 resolve and over 135k potency. I'm mostly through on a defiler and a warlock.

This is absolutely the most casual friendly expansion in years. It is, however, a bit of a shift from previous expansions in terms of how you get heroic ready. Doing the achievements is the way to get there. Remember CD the first few months where the only way into heroics was to fully experiment, reforge, and plat infuse MC gear? That was definitely not casual friendly. Remember PoP with all the endless faction grinds? That was definitely not casual friendly.

Dude, I normally agree with you, but I think your % are off and I am agreeing with Mermut 98%, but leaving it with the rng to figure in the final%

Based on a study of actual hunches and gut feeling, I am going to say if you changed it tp 75% and 25% respectively I might go with a 50/50 chance of Mermut being right and You being right the other 50%

AND

That means that you are both wrong and or right at the same time!!

Not sure what you were doing that required a heroic. Can you elaborate? I have done the sigline four times and have not needed to do one.

I usually do the tradeskill line first, because you get to fly again faster. So doing the tradeskill line without flying isn't that difficult. I even have done it on lower level adventure toons, which while more challenging and involved a fair number of deaths, was not overly difficult once I learned the right routes.

Second, no one has maxed spells going through the sig lines as they are getting new tier spells. If you mean max from last expansion, many of us were still at expert on many of them because of the low master drop rate.
I did the sig line on a healer the first time through. It was slow, very slow, going getting through the instances the first time. But if you are casual, what is the rush?

Safe Fall? Not sure why you need that. But there are numerous options available to all. Float cloaks are very easy to come by. And if you don't have one tinkered parachutes are always an option.

There are numerous ways to get some nice items after finishing the sig line. Exploration achievements. Clickable item quests. The dropped item quests. Killing the solo nameds. All these take is time playing. Get them at your leisure for nice rewards.

I think we all know that this is pure hyperbole. DBG isn't trying to get rid of anyone. That makes no sense from a business case. Does this expansion still need a LOT of work? Yes. It was definitely released too early. There is a disparity that they have to deal with though. How to make solo instances stand up across the year and not make them too hard for poorly equipped players at the outset. I'm sure there are a few tweaks they can make to improve them. But they need more feedback than this is TOO hard. What is too hard. Specifically. What part of what instance gave you trouble. Maybe there is a trick you missed to make it doable. Maybe it needs a tweak. They won't know unless you provide them specifics, either here or through the /feedback command in game.

I agree completely with Mermut, I have never seen an expansion so geared to cripple the casual player or completely turn away any new player just starting with this expansion. These mechanics were terribly thought out and should be addressed. No one wants to or should have to struggle with solo content. Solo being the key word, with a merc should be 100% possible without being required to sit waiting for another player to assist.

The onus to slow progression of players is out of control. Plat infusing and weapon leveling should be completely removed from the game, it smells sickly of money grab mechanics. The majority of casual players and none of the new players are going to have the plat resources to infuse, and then waste it infusing an item they will upgrade and then to just do it again. Plat infusing is a great cover to help boost Krono sales for players to sell and get the plat that they are required to use to infuse. Lets not even get started on the spell research sales.

I would love to see the Dev's relook at the current game mechanics, greatly reduce the amount of combat mitigation needed for all encounters and let the game be fun again, not these long drawn out to eternity encounters that have been impossible to a healthy population of players.

On a side note, to echo a previous thread, I would love nothing more than the Dev team to stop all work on future projects until the current content, bugs, quests, armor, you name it, is fixed.

Once I figured out what the luminary aspergillium was for, I've actually enjoyed these. It's like playing an elaborate game of tag.

I am talking about the BoL Signature Timeline. I'm not talking about doing heroics after completing the timeline.

EverQuest 2 Quest Information
Journal Category Signature
Journal Level 114 (Tier 12)
Journal Difficulty Heroic
Starting Zone Sanctus Seru (City) more
How to Start Speak with Hulda Flintbraid at ( -72, 89, 258 )

part of: Blood of Luclin Timeline

Preceded by:
Shattered Dawn: Behind the Walls of Seru Followed by:
Shattered Dawn: Extinguish the Corrupted Light

Yes, it is probably possible for a healer to do the first solo instance with a merc but it is incredibly hard for people who only have a couple of hours at night to play. I know you have 3 days to complete the instance but not everyone can play 3 days in a row. I was in the instance for almost two hours during my 3 tries.

I was level 119 and using the Inq. merc, the first time. The second and third times I had other players helping me. Many players will only have a lessor merc to work with. I could have used the SK merc but that didn't seem like a fair test as I doubt most players can afford the Premium xpac.

The second instance looks similar to the first one. I haven't done that one as I couldn't get help with it.

EverQuest 2 Quest Information
Journal Category Signature
Journal Level 114 (Tier 12)
Journal Difficulty Heroic
Starting Zone Sanctus Seru (City) more
How to Start Speak with Hulda Flintbraid at ( -72, 89, 258 )

part of: Blood of Luclin Timeline

Preceded by:
Shattered Dawn: Execution of Order Followed by:
Shattered Dawn: Cast a Long Shadow

I just love the way people expect new players to have loads of plat to infuse their gear so they can do the instances. I am sure there are lots of raiders with plat to burn but I'm not sure that is true of crafters and new players. I know the characters on my new account don't have much in the way of plat to infuse their gear.

You are also expecting new players to figure out exactly how they should infuse their gear to be able to do the instances. I've been playing since shortly after launch and I have no idea what the best way is to infuse my gear.

My main is just a lowly carpenter-healer who wants to make furniture for her other characters so they can decorate their houses. I have no interest in getting a Ph.D. in infusing. I just want to explore new lands and decorate with a minimum of aggravation.

And we've been able to do that up until KA, which was the pits. PoP was worse. CD was great for crafters, so I had high hopes for BoL and wasted a lot of money buying the more expensive xpacs just to find I had to complete the signature line to fly.

If you can fly, after completing the TS sig line, it is the first I've heard of it. I did try doing the TS quests but kept getting stuck in the graphics so that I'd have to port out and start all over. It got monotonous really fast which is why I tried the adventure signature line so I could fly. I read that was the best way to complete the TS signature line and it probably is if you aren't a healer.

I'm to the point where I'm not sure I care about crafting and decorating anymore. While it would be fun to decorate with some new stuff, it is no longer fun getting the recipes thanks to DB wanting crafters to also be good at dungeon crawling.

I wasn't fond of the faction grinding we used to have to do to get recipes and levels, but at least it didn't require any great skills as an adventurer. That's what made EQ2 stand out from all the other games on the market. But all of that has gone as has being able to play current content without having to do a lot of research and spend a lot of money.

I don't want to spend time meant for fun and relaxation on studying stats, making master-crafted items to destroy to get plat to infuse items that will only last a few hours, running around getting stuck in the geometry, and having to dungeon crawl so I can use the flying mounts I paid real money to get.

Maybe that puts me in the minority of players. But I know life is limited so I'm not going to pay to waste it doing things that make me miserable. There is some good content in BoL but the signature line is not one of them for casual players.

I would recommend doing all side quests in all three overland zones first. Several of them give good upgrades and should outfit you well enough. If you are doing the crafting line at the same time, you can do both side quests and the crafting quests together.

Actually, I disagree here in part. The signature questline should be a little challenging, or else it's a no-fun obstacle you blow through and forget. I have personally not had to wait for anyone to come help any of my toons on it, not even the healers. The healers are slower, because unlike, say, my warlock, they can't round up 75% of everything in the zone and AOE it down at once. But I wouldn't say it takes them hours to get through a solo, either.

That being said, I have had to completely infuse everything my toons are wearing to be effective at all. But I'm running my channeler through right now, and all her jewelry is CD Mastercrafted, she has no Ethereal gear, and she's upgrading pieces as she gets them in the questline... and she's doing okay.

Not really. There's always a requirement to set up the content so that it keeps players occupied for at least a few months. The problem this time is that they arranged this not by giving us interesting and stimulating things to do, but rather by putting in obvious and annoying requirements to have to completely infuse gear, to get gear from Achievements AND they destroyed crafted gear as any kind of useful option. Oh, and ruined crafting, a playstyle that a lot of people consider their primary play activity, but that's another post.

I would much prefer that there be a bunch of interesting side quests that have useful rewards that are not part of the sig line, and dangit, I want those quests to tell stories, increase the lore, and keep my mind involved in the world of Norrath. Achievements and box-drop quests do not fulfil that desire, even if they are useful in gearing up. But that's not what we got handed to us.

DBG management, if you are listening, don't throw meaningless slow-downs under our feet, take longer to release the next expansion and give us legitimate content that we can enjoy rather than the boring, meaningless sig line followed by the same 9-12 instances in solo and heroic flavors that have to content us for the next 11 months! Get someone who can tell stories to help write quests and plot out lore! Surely there's a creative writing program at one of the local colleges from which you could get an intern or two?

I don't think you completely understand infusing. Plat infusing is not the only infusing. There are three layers that take infusers. The Deity Layer accepts plat infusing, yes. But it also accepts infusers you purchase from the Loyalty merchants (Loyalty tokens are "participation prizes" that you get for basically showing up and playing!) Then there's the whole Physical Layer, which accepts infusers that you get as loot or mission rewards, as well as crafted infusers from any expansion. It is, in fact, best to start out with older, cheaper infusers and use those until they won't infuse any more, before trying to apply current infusers.

Yes, new people may not grok infusing. Obviously a lot of established players don't, either. The wiki has a full tutorial about Equipment Infusing that should be helpful for anyone.

I do not believe that solo content should require fully infusing everything you are wearing. That kind of effort should be reserved for hard Heroics and Raids, IMHO. But they are throwing infusers at us at every turn, too, so people should be able to get some infusing done.

Back in the day when they announced they were abolishing Critical Mitigation and wouldn't do that to us again, we all heaved a sigh of relief. Then they abruptly reinstated Crit Mit by cleverly calling it Resolve. It's still a completely artificial gating mechanism. But none of the solo content has any Resolve requirements.

I keep seeing people talk about "combat mitigation" but I haven't seen convincing evidence that it exists. When you examine a mob's buffs before attacking it, they clearly tell you they are going to debuff a number of stats by certain percentages, plus everything is casting a range of incurable detriments, and the cumulative effect of that is what I think people are confusing for "combat mitigation" (I would be willing to be persuaded that combat mitigation actually occurs if someone can show me numbers that include the stated debuffs the mob has plus any detriments, and then show that there is some additional, unlabeled mechanic happening).

If a new player is feeling all frustrated, well, it's my opinion that if you are learning the game it's really best to start with a level 1 character and play that toon without a merc to at least level 30 to learn how it actually works, then if you wanna MOLO or power level, so be it.

But infusing has been in the game since Thalumbra at least, four expansions or so back, it's not a new mechanic, and if people don't know how it works, they just need to educate themselves. We wouldn't be complaining that understanding WDB or CB is too hard for a new player, would we? No, those are basic mechanics. And now so is infusing a basic requirement. We can agree that it shouldn't be required for soloing, but that's not what we've been presented with so we kinda have to suck it up until and unless the development team decides it was all a fever dream and changes things up.

I don't know how unfriendly the questline is to *casual* players but if platinum infusion is required it cannot possibly be very friendly to new or just returning players. Few of whom will either have the platinum or know what gear to use it on and how to best use it.

EQ2 has many features I like better than games like LOTRO or SWTOR - I am here not there. But it is not very good about encouraging new or returning players and giving them the information they need to jump into new content. Let us face it - not many of us read about an expansion - get excited enough to buy it - and then are content to spend months getting up to speed and gathering platinum so we can actually play it.

Personally I am not complaining - I am quite content to go through earlier content and save BoL for months from now when it will be more polished and less buggy. But I doubt if that is the typical view of someone returning to play the expansion.

Another part of the problem is lack of upgrades.
Once you do the sig line, the ONLY reason to run solo instances is for coins and status. There are ZERO upgrades from the zones. In fact most of the gear out of the solo zones is WORSE than than the gear players will have by the time they finish the sig line.
Since you pretty much 'need' the 165 gear from overland achievements to break into heroics... and heroics only give 165 gear, running THOSE also has a high chance of zero upgrades.
This is the first expac, ever, that we've blown up gear from the first heroic zones we ran the entire expac. It's mind-boggling.

/laugh I'd have said the only reason to run solos is to get shinies. But I have gotten a couple of masters in solos, and a couple of red adorns, so it's not totally useless, just a very low chance of useful rewards.. I'll keep running them until the collections are done, but probably not after that.

Ah yes, the shinies. That is the main reason to run solos, yes.
In my opinion, it's never a good thing when the only upgrades or things that are useful/desired are locked behind low RNG chances.

This is listed as heroic because in theory you *COULD* run the heroic version of the zone to satisfy the quest. As far as I know, this label is inconsistently applied across quests for at least the last several expansions.

Test? What test? If you have it, use it and enjoy it. You paid for it after all. I don't have the premium edition so I can't comment on that merc specifically, but in general I have found most mercs have little difference in ability regardless to how they are obtained. This one may be different though.

For Plat infusing, there is nothing to figure out. You click on infuse and it randomly assigns an infusion chance to a stat. You keep clicking until the item can no longer be infused. For other infusers, pop it in the window, if it takes it it will let you click the button, if it doesn't it won't light up. For what it's worth, I agree, infusing to do solos should not be required, (and I don't know that it is) just a way to make it easier/less time consuming.

You can fly after completing the TS line. I have done this on most of my toons. My healer actually finished the Adventure line first. All the other toons I did the TS line first on are *NOT* healers, some can't even to the Adventure line since they are too low level. Since the TS line is faster to finish, I recommend it for those that want t be able to fly sooner.

Almee, I would recommend finding another game.
They are not going to change the direction of this one
We waited
We gambled
We lost
Easy as that, just accept it is what it is or move on because your concerns don't mean squat.
Its easier now to just jump in and collect my monthly bonus and shut the game down then play something else I do enjoy than it is to try and change the world.