Prelude: Since KA rare random drops became essensial for char progression. This bug may exist since start off EQ2, but was a minor impact because you could buy most stuff on broker. Description: There are characters they have a major disadvantage on the RNG. They have to do a significant amount of missions more than others to get rare or ultra rare stuff. It seems that the RNG depends on something that is connected to a char. It not account wide. For a very short time period (some hours) they have a good chance to get this stuff and than long time nothing. Over the years i have talked to many players, they either get anything or nothing like me. Example: My mainchar: KA: Never get an expert ascension or class master either in groups or solo. No burnt key. Around 30-40 runs to get the sword from Jarsath-PQ PoP: Never got an ancient book. Never found an essence overland. The whole expansion 7 essences during harvesting missions, maybe one from plant. Orange runes or master from solo - nothing. CA: Around 80 runs for a specific no-trade solo shiny. Never found a dropped celestial adorn book. No class master in group or solo. 6 essences during the whole expansion. 140+ missions from solo to raid and 4x10 and 6x20 resarch reducer 50+ missions from solo to raid and 3x10 mount reducer and many more examples i may have forgotten. Mathematical analysis: Even with bad luck thru years, some chars should never be always outside FWHM of the gaussian distribution (bell curve). Sources: Donald E. Knuth The Art of Computer Programming Volume 2 Chapter 3: Random Numbers Any textbook about normal distribution
I can conform this behavior. It has become a joke in my guild that one of my characters has the absolute worst luck ever. Meanwhile, I have other toons that always get the goodies and always have.
Each time you get loot or pick up a shiny etc., it's a brand new dice roll. Rare stuff is rare. There's nothing wrong with the RNG. The rarity of some items may need to be adjusted. Yes, over a large number of samples, the distribution should start to resemble the stated percentages in the loot table (which we don't see but can sometimes infer). But the normal operation of the RNG can leave you with a very long "streak" of not getting whatever it is you are after. The Greater Planar Energy Fragments are too rare. It would be Real Nice if we had more ways to obtain these. Heck, just make them tradeable and people will farm them and put them on the broker.
The no-trade shinies are way too rare as well. I have been running instances almost every night and still not completed heroic collection. Some of those no trades I have seen only drop once since expac is out. And then of course there is only a 1 in 6 change you get it. I like shinies a lot (some of my guildies call me the Shiny Queen) and I am known to wipe for shinies...but where is the fun in collections you can not complete? I have completed over 1300 collections but am still left with about 60 discovered collections I simply cannot complete, where my quest log apart from the missions is now empty. Even the meta collections from Nizara are less of a pain because at least there is a small change they eventually turn out on de the broker. (for ridiculous amounts sadly). Rare shinies...ok. No trade shinies...hesitantly ok-ish. But very rare AND no trade? Come on guys, please. I don't like to whine about the game and have been waiting long to say something about this issue but fearing the new expac will be full of new very rare no-trade shinies you will never get gave me a reason to say so now.
You have no idea how RNG works. So please stop saying all is ok. For beginners: We have a loot table with a random dice ranging 1-100. The Loot-Table is something like this: 1-50 normal loot 50-75 rare loot 1 76-90 rare loot 2 91-96 ultra rare loot 1 97-99 ultra rare loot 1 100 mega ultra rare loot For some reasons some chars are doomed and never get a roll ranging from 97-100, while other get this roll more often than others. Simple generator: #include<stdio.h> #include<stdlib.h> #include<time.h> int main() { srand(time(NULL)); int i; for(i = 0; i<5; i++) printf("%d\t", rand()%10); } setting the seed: srand(time(NULL)) calculationg your roll: printf("%d\t", rand()%10); My theroy a) is that the seed is based on something that is connected to your char causing the bad rolls you have b) somethings broken with the roll calcualation The way the RNG is implemented in EQ2 may be different, but thats the basic way how it works.
Dude, they ain't writing their own RNG. I can just about guarantee you, like any other busy programmers, they're calling it from the programming language's library. I'm pretty sure they're using C++ and LUA, based on past job listings for the company. In general, when seeding a RNG, you wouldn't use a static value such as the character ID number. It's common to use some portion of the date/timestamp as a seed. Something dynamic, in any case. I'm pretty sure every programming major teaches you these things about the time they explain a bubble sort and modular design. If you use the command /RAN (identical to /RAN 1 100) 1,000 times, then look at what you have rolled, you will generally find you have hit everything from 1-100. As it happens, there are actually Achievements for some of these dice rolls in a NBG loot situation (Biggest Loser and Biggest Winner). It should be fairly simple to query Census and see how many people have those exact achievements, to make your case.
I so agree that there's something wrong with the RNG. I played alot with a friend and the NEEDs always went to him, like over 90% of the time. In 2006-07, someone had posted something about it and mentionned something very similar to this that it had to do something with the char ID or name. At one point, for other reason, I switched main and then our roll were very 50/50. We were shocked. What was even more crazy is that both our names started with the same alphabetic letter. Who knows...
I have noticed that in some games developers give one or two very-very nice items in the first or second drop to encourage new or returning players. After some happy moments however the new/returning player has to deal with the normal, plain and ordinary RNG.
someone summon ttobey! we need a reflective tinfoil hat in game pronto, my brain is being fried by pseudo-intellectual meta-waves
Yall can poke fun and laugh at this all you want. It is 100% true. I run solo's every night and clear heroics at least twice a week and do PQ daily. I have never gotten anything rare except the PQ weapon from this xpac. Nothing....ever. My guild laughs at me for this, however we have a person in the guild that buys A CRAP ton of stuff off the marketplace. He literally spends more money that I probably make a month on it. He buys 40-60 cobalt chests, a week, he buys all hs spells. you get the idea. He has gotten all the rare drop mounts. All the PQ rares He looted 2...YES 2...red gems just last night from solo!!! He has most of the red gems sockets full now. He has his rare shadow books and if you have to roll against him in a group....you might as well decline.
The RNG has been a joke for years. If it was truly random, you wouldn't have the same people rolling high numbers or always getting the loot and others see nada. I once rolled three straight 1s in a raid. Do you have any idea of the mathematical odds of that happening? I have yet to see a shadow recipe book while others have a lot. A week solid of researcher quests (for the ones actually working) and the reward: nothing but common harvesting mats, 1 pome and two copies of adept woodworker 15.
I understand. I finally looted an exquisite chest from a solo last night. Want to know what I got? Well let me tell you. I got an Illegible Scroll Master page. I was saddened.
Same! But I've got 2 red adorns as well. Here's my confirmation bias - There's a Monk who runs solos every day and by the end of the night he will have given away 5-6 no drop shineys, a mount, and sold a red adorn. Every night. Meanwhile I still down have Short Shift's ankle bone or the no drop crate/weapon shiney from AC solos and I run all 3 multiple times a day.
Thank you all for responses. First of all we/there are no tinfoil hat users. The bug is not obviously to see, in opposition to other bugs. I want to narrow down the error. 1. There is no pure RNG in EQ2 (last implementation of smart loot were overseer shinys for a short duration). 2. The bug is split in two portions, first the generation of exquisite chests in solos and second the roll for loot on any missions. Not more not less. There may be an impact on the group/raid random rolls, but i have no evidence for this. 3. There is no evidence that marketplace action has an influence on rolls. At least i know one character against such theory. 3. From my point of view, the bug hits not more than 5-10% of characters/accounts. There are 3 fractions: a) The majority of players is not hit by the bug. b) The lucky fraction, the gets far more "rare" loot than others. c) The bad luck fraction, that gets nothing regardless how many zones/missions are completed. 4. Because of 3c) there is small fraction who sees the bug. But every time you create an alt you can join this fraction. And players of 3c) are getting more and more fustrated or hit by jokes from your guild. 5. Because mission/solo exquiste chests are now the main source of "rare" loot we are hit very hard. We are getting more and more behind every day the bug is in the game. Last but not least a summary of rare loot a got in the last month. Characters in group 3a and 3b can it compare to there "luck": Running almost 10 daily overseers since start (about 300 now): 10 hour mission: not got yet white Empyral 2x : 2 recipes 10day mount reducer: 1 anything else: double agents, shinys, fragments, essences and sell loot, some advanced books (6x carpenter 15!) but they only started to drop the time advanced books got worthless. 100+ daily TS missions: 2-3 shadow prospection mount recipes PQ and status merchant crates (around 50): nothing but infusers and 150/155 gear 100+ solo missions: 3x exquisite chests: 2x solo mount and an worthless Empyral tailor(!) book. 1 grandmaster receipe book from unknown source (must have overlooked it, see below). Last words: I mostly stopped running missions or inspecting loot (only clicking "OK"), because it is a waste of time. If you are member of the elite loot bug club, please vote up. Us, with this loot bug, we are the bearer, we are living the new theme since a long time: "Never Give Up"
ttobey!!!! i need a hero! people are confused about RNG sample sizing, certain that it should net-0 around them, or else broke and talking about tilted bell curves looking up from their local minimums. the passion is infectious, i don't know how much longer i can hold on ttobey!!!
While I understand your frustration with the results you and some others have experienced (especially since RNGeezus seems to hate me as well), there are some things to keep in mind. Your sample size is small, and any "trends" will be magnified by that lens; it is completely feasible for someone to have RNG "bad luck," while remaining within 1 or 2 deviations of the statistical norm (and still completely within the bell curve). If you want your claims about the RNG to be received better than those over the last 2-3 decades of gamer complaints, I would suggest the following: Gather a group of players that will commit to regular testing and analysis. Develop a testing methodology, and document the living crap out of it (if you don't, devs will ignore it). Perform tests the same way every time; when or if testing is expanded to new scenarios, document how the testing methodology will be applied to the new situation(s). This will be the hardest thing to do, because "automating" an encounter or test using third party tools would be a violation of the user agreement. And 'human factors' will cause variations and/or errors. Let the raw results speak for themselves. Any manipulation of the results could cause devs (or forum readers) to invalidate your tests. Consider having a dis-interested third party examine or interpret the results; this will help avoid claims of biased arguments. Regardless if the results bolster or invalidate your hypothesis, use them in a positive manner going forward. Even if they show there's no issues with the RNG, perhaps the framework you establish will help someone else at a later time. In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with the RNG. It's more likely related to polluted or mis-configured loot tables, which is a completely different issue. It's not the RNG's fault if it rolls a 99, and the loot table has 1 - 99 as "XYZ crap loot," with 00 as "slightly less crap loot." Best of luck to you!
RNG is not a bug, its something programmed in that goes off time/date/letters used in character name and character number, combined with calendar date and current server time while its factoring in current elevation to set you on a given loot table, which then has its own rng that uses the direction you are facing when you click the item (I personally find its better to look East when an evil character and Northwest on a goodie)..I will start checking to see if the color of your armor makes any difference next expansion. So see, theres a lot of maths involved with having good luck!
If I want better loot ,I will play my original character again. Luckiest SOB ever. To bad I dont like playing a healer anymore.
Thank you for this Wulf. We need more people, such as yourself, to intelligently explain the subtleties of the game to those that haven't invested their whole lives playing it, instead of those that bully, demean, accuse and belittle others to "score a point" with their fan base. (We are trying to keep players actually playing the game and not drive them away, right?) As for myself, i have never really thought too much about the loot i've received, only that whenever my wife and i are playing together, she will always win the loot a good 85 - 90% of the time. I'm ok with that though
