Dear Daybreak

Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by Miss_Jackie, Dec 4, 2018.

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  1. Meneltel Well-Known Member

    Feldon, I worked with someone who had to use a calculator to add 2 + 2 together... and she was one of my bosses! Where I have been doing basic math in my head since a kid. So I check the store listed price per ounce on the shelf labels to make sure its right. I make every penny scream before I spend it, for being in a household on limited income, we have to. But we make do, scrimp where we can and twice a month my cousin gets a McDonalds burger (McD in the Walmart we shop at every two weeks). So life is fine for now.
    Kheldar, Rosyposy, Feldon and 3 others like this.
  2. Castegyre Well-Known Member

    I knew someone who had a specific type of learning disability that seriously impaired their ability to do even basic math in their head. If they wrote it out or used a device they were fine, but even counting change at the register could make them go into a near panic as they got confused. That's a severe case, but work around people and money enough and you will see that a lot of people lack the capacity or the patience to do even simple counting on the fly. Not everyone is wired the same way.
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  3. Mercychalice Well-Known Member

    I'm a lot like this myself. I don't know that I would call it disabled. But I cannot do math in my head. I can write it out and do it. But never in my head. The numbers jumble up. I keep a calculator on my taskbar. :confused:
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  4. Kaid Member

    The issue with the chocolate coins in my mind is pretty simple. As one example for illustration, let's say I want the snow globe prestige home. I do too! It's silly I guess but I love this time of year and the home is pretty nifty. Most prestige homes do zero for me personally but there are a couple I like and one of those is the snowy one, I forget the name of it. Anyway, so I want this snow globe home and normally if I wanted to buy a prestige home, it would run me about 13 bucks in real money if there was no sale going on.

    The problem occurs when you have to spend about 50 real bucks currently to obtain something you want that would normally sell for around 13 or so. Yes, you get the other stuff but I don't want the other stuff. I just want my snow globe and I am not sorry for that either.

    Tying the sale of one thing like bait to the sales of other things tends to irritate many folks who just want to by the thing they want, not other stuff so they can get what they wanted in the first place.

    If they wanted to promote the sales of other things on the store, that's fine. It could be done by offering incentives in the form of savings on holiday items perhaps as just one possibility. They could also just run a classic holiday sale discounting things which will naturally boost sales and therefore profits. I am hoping they will yet, once the chocolate coins deal ends. If not, well maybe next year I can get a snow globe house if they let me just buy the snow globe house.

    Some stuff is just plain non-negotiable for me and I really do vote with my wallet. I'm not angry with Daybreak Games over a snow globe but I do feel this particular marketing strategy was ill-conceived. Witness this thread as proof of that while keeping in mind that those who post on the forums are a very, very small subset of the player population at large. By this I mean, it is safe to conclude that plenty of people are not thrilled about the chocolate coins promotion - at all.

    Anyway, if I wasn't so lazy I could make my own little Santa's village somewhere with items available in game and prestige home I got with past expansions. So, I guess it is my own fault that I will instead just don a black holiday cape and go on a murderous rampage in various places throughout Norrath until I have had my fill of holiday carnage. Oh, wait. I am never full when it comes to this. So, I guess I will wind up being pretty happy anyway but please Daybreak, next time just do a normal sale? Please? I'll buy one but no, I don't even need a TS token and I don't want a bunch of nuking mercs. I am all set. I have a grandson to buy presents for so I don't have a budget for mercs and tokens I don't need just to get a toy house in a game. I'm sorry. Well, I am not actually sorry but somebody in marketing ought to be. This was not a good idea. It is entirely possible to promote things and drive sales in a way that creates a positive and enthusiastic response. This was not the way to do that.
  5. Siren Well-Known Member


    The lack of sense or integrity (or your paranoia) comes from you not doing the simple math: Two character transfers are 24.50 each (minus 10% for my being gold). If a house comes along with them, and you don't pay anything extra for that house, then the house is free. If I bought those two character transfers after Dec. 16th, 2018 then I would still pay the same price, but not get the house. Hence, my buying the two transfers before the 16th means the house is indeed coming along for free.
    Breanna likes this.
  6. Feldon Well-Known Member

    Naturally I'm not referring to folks who have a learning disability. Actually, I can't keep a 10 digit phone number in my head until I memorize it. Short term memory something something.

    In this case I'm talking about people who suffer from CBA*.

    *Can't be arsed
  7. Bastiaan New Member

    While I'm sure this won't get to the person that it needs to, I can't help but at least voice my opinion as a paying player. I've loved Frostfell since it first came out and every year I make sure to log in and see what new quests are out there along with what new crafts there are to create.
    With that being said I am absolutely disgusted with what Daybreak has done by throwing these chocolate coins in the game that are only available through the cash shop. I hardly ever log in to the forums because I feel that my voice usually isn't heard but those who have said let them hear us through our wallet, I think that's a great idea. I think this is the first time I can remember something like this happening in-game. Once a game goes this direction it's usually downhill from there.
    You all have been a great community of players and friends. After 5497 days on this account, I feel that it's time to hang it up and go elsewhere. As for Daybreak games, I hope you get exactly what you deserve in your ventures.
  8. Tekka Well-Known Member

    It's simple.

    Do you get the DBC stipend if you don't pay a subscription? The answer is no. Do you get the chocolate coins if you don't purchase the bundles? The answer is no.

    Therefore it is not free, you had to pay real life cash to obtain the DBC and the chocolate coins to obtain the "extra" or "free" items.

    This is a prime example of how some companies take advantage of a certain kind of mentality in their consumer base, thank you for providing it.
    That guy., Gillymann and Kheldar like this.
  9. Castegyre Well-Known Member


    It's not about paying extra. It's not about doing basic math. It's that you paid at all. They can set whatever price they want for their goods, tell you whatever they want to dupe you into buying them, and you can convince yourself of whatever you want to make your purchase make sense to you. You still gave them some amount of your money to get anything from them. That, right there, is paying for something. You paid for all of it even if you convinced yourself some of it was extra or free because you wouldn't have any of it if you didn't pay. Buying something on sale or at a discount is still buying something. Tell yourself whatever you want to make yourself feel more positive about the exchange, but I would suggest you read up on some of the things mentioned earlier in this thread.

    As a whale, I do feel somewhat bad being one of the people who help companies get away with things like this. I also at least make some attempt to be aware of my participation.
    Kheldar likes this.
  10. Rhodris EQ2Wire Ninja

    I'm one of those people who have trouble with numbers. You could ask me every day for a week what 2 + 2 was and I'd give you a different answer each day. It's a major reason why I will never visit the USA (because I can't figure out tipping), and why I refuse to min/max in this game (because I can't figure out the maths).
    Tekka likes this.
  11. Benito Ancient EQ2 Player: Lavastorm Server 2004.

    Wow. I can't believe people are quitting the game because they can't/won't buy cosmetic skins.

    I said EQ1 survived the $200 and $100 armor ornaments. Now, I really don't know if EQ2 will survive Frostfell's Chocolate Coins.(On a side note, EQ1 sells "Festive Frostfell" armor suits for 1999 DBC that look like EQ2's in-game earnable "Merry and Bright" suits. So are EQ2 players spoiled?).

    Maybe people are right about a psychological dimension to this transaction. But maybe it's one about relative deprivation and not predatory marketing.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_deprivation
  12. Kaid Member

    If you cannot have something that is said to be free without spending money to get it, then that something is not actually free is it? You had to spend money to get your free whatever it is. That ain't free.What it really is, is one part of a bundle that in its entirety is not free and therefore no part of that bundle is free. If any part of that bundle like say, oh, a snow globe house was free, this thread would not exist. We'd all be having fun in our snow globes singing Daybreak's praises for giving them to us for free.

    That's not quite the reality here though, is it?
  13. Kaid Member

    I don't think it's about any cosmetic item being sold by itself or at whatever price. It's about the only way to get some items people would like to get requiring them to buy a lot of stuff they weren't in the market for at this time during a limited window of opportunity or too bad. They baited the hooks so to speak in this case and that i think is the issue people are tending to have with this.
    Alenna, Tkia and Kheldar like this.
  14. Benito Ancient EQ2 Player: Lavastorm Server 2004.

    They are selling the bundles at regular price (and not at an inflated price). Furthermore, they have diversified the bundle selections beyond something totally repugnant (not only tradeskill boosts, Ascension primers, or character transfers but merc crates, familiar crates, and unattuners).

    Furthemore, Daybreak can argue that the house deed's price point was $50 but the bundles themselves were considered bonuses.

    Edit: Daybreak can even posit that the housing zone's size equivalence to Antonica warrants the higher price due to higher server load.
  15. Finora Well-Known Member

    I don't think anyone said they were quitting the game over this Benito.

    You can argue it, defend, and spin it any way you wish.

    The powers that be can come and argue it themselves too. It's not going to change the perception people have about the their handling of this particular holiday offering.

    ** I'm really not sure what you mean by "diversified the bundles", the stuff in them is exactly the same stuff as it was the first day.

    But, whatever at this point. They'll just lose some sales they might otherwise have had. Hope they enjoy their whale fishing and the Daybreak defenders can spend their DBC on the stuff.
    Tkia, Kheldar, Tekka and 1 other person like this.
  16. Benito Ancient EQ2 Player: Lavastorm Server 2004.

    Someone is quitting (see Post #87):



    Read "diversified the bundle selections." (Not items in the bundles themselves). It's made even clearer when I cite examples of the selections (offerings): not only repugnant items like tradeskill boosts, ascension primers, and server transfer tokens but also items of consumption like merc and familiar crates, and unattuners.

    People will be turned off by the $50 price tag regardless of how it's offered. (And yes, the $50 seems justifiable new that a dev has relayed that the zone has the capacity equivalent to Antonica).

    I am just shocked that some EQ2 players are going berserk over a few cosmetic skins. I mean selling game power through boosts, Ascension primers, and spell upgrades are much worse game-health wise. (From the perspective of an EQ1 veteran).
  17. Kaid Member

    I didn't comment on the bundles prices. I know they are at the regular price. I'm not sure what your point is there. Do you mean that since the prices are not inflated, the chocolate coins value really is free? If so, I think you may be missing the point I was trying to make and the issue I think many people are having with this promotion. It isn't free or not. It isn't bundle prices. The issue is that if you want the things that only chocolate coins can buy this holiday season, you have to buy regular items to get the item you wanted to begin with. In other words, marrying the items together with no other way to buy just holiday things people want is what I think many, including me, are not especially happy about.

    Yes, there is a relatively diverse assortment of things to buy but what if somebody really just doesn't want those things. They just want some holiday stuff, period. There is no option for that. There is no way to earn them in the game and there is no way to just buy them by themselves. The worst case of this probably is the Snow Globe Prestige home which I have already talked about above.

    Yes, Daybreak could argue anything they want to, including plenty more you don't mention. I don't see that as being very relevant though when customers are not happy with a promotion. Arguing with them about why something they do not like is okay is a lose-lose proposition. Nobody wins there.

    In a good marketing promotion, everybody wins. This chocolate coin thing does not meet that standard. I'm sorry but not even close. I'll just mention me but I am only one person so I don't count for much unless a lot of other people feel similarly. I am thinking they do though. I'd like to buy a snow globe house for the standard prestige home price or better still, 10 bucks. That's what I'd like. I am not entitled this of course, but it is what I would like. What Daybreak would like, is for me to spend $50 bucks buying other stuff and to entice me to do that, they bait this and that bundle of other stuff with this snow globe that cannot be had any other way.

    You really cannot understand how some people could take issue with that? Forget the excuses for a moment and just consider what if all you wanted was some holiday themed items at holiday time and you don't want any unrelated bundles of other stuff? This strategy is a very obvious one. Get the consumer to buy stuff they would not normally buy right now so they can get this thing they want. I don't think that's a very nice thing to do, especially at this time of year. Now, that's just my own personal feeling about it but again, I am thinking I have a fair amount of company here. Am I raging? No. Do I feel entitled? No. I just wish that Daybreak would wise up on the money extraction stuff and back it off some. This is an old MMO. It's not a good idea to anger customers to the point some want to just walk away in frustration that does not need to even happen.

    It would have been so easy to do this differently and still boost sales while also pleasing customers. Everybody could win. As it stands, that clearly isn't happening with this or again, this threat would not likely exist.
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  18. Benito Ancient EQ2 Player: Lavastorm Server 2004.


    Beyond the wall of text and perhaps cognitive dissonance, you admit to your core motivation: "I'd like to buy a snow globe house for the standard prestige home price or better still, 10 bucks."

    Let me pose these two hypotheticals:

    (1) What if Daybreak offered the snow globe house for 2 or 3 chocolate coins instead of 10. Would we even be having this conversation? (I doubt anyone would raise the issue of such "baiting" through "bundling").

    (2) Say Daybreak sets the price point at a flat 5000 DBC ($50). Guess what? People, including yourself, would cry foul that it goes against precedent (standard prestige house price).

    It all goes back to relative deprivation and not predatory marketing.
  19. Mermut Well-Known Member

    If the coins could be purchased directly and separately, I doubt there would be as much.. discontent.
    People are required to buy extra 'stuff' (thereby increasing the cost) that they may or may not have any interest in if they want the house. That is my perception of the core complaint.
    Alenna, Rosyposy, Tkia and 3 others like this.
  20. Pilarin Member

    The only reason bundles exist is that businesses want to make more money than they could by selling the items separately. Is It relative or real deprivation is not what people are talking about. The issue is that businesses want to make the customer forget it. That is predatory.
    Kheldar likes this.
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