Devs: - Bug report - Class defining abilities broken recently

Discussion in 'Fighters' started by Kahling, Jun 21, 2018.

  1. Kahling Member

    I realize there are a lot of AA's that need looking in to but could you please look at fixing two that were recently broken with lvl 118 mobs in expert zones as they are pretty class defining abilities for a Paladin.

    Paladin AA line - Cure - only cures 117 levels so needs to be higher for expert, maybe up it a bit more than 118 to cover updates in the future?

    Heroic AA Zelous smite - only cures 117 levels so needs to be higher for expert, again maybe a up it to 120 or so for future?


    Thanks
  2. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

    Are you using an Expert Potion?
  3. Kahling Member

    The expert potion doesn't change the two abilities as far as I know. Only the stats that it mentions.
  4. Mermut Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately devs have replied in Discord something that amounts to 'working as intended' :confused:
    The SK I run with has the same issues. If you've got an elementalist in the group, have them cast glacial freeze on the mob. That should put the dets down at the level you can cure them.
  5. quisling Well-Known Member

    LOL...working as we now intended, since its broken and we arent gonna fix it....
    Meneltel likes this.
  6. Mermut Well-Known Member

    I believe the comment was along the lines of 'it was never intended to work on raid level content'.. but yeah, you summed it up well, since it has been working on raid level content for years and years and years...

    edit: Granted this is the first expac that devs have thought it a good idea to have multiple dets land at the same time.. and only have ONE show up in the group/raid window...
    Because, apparantly, letting healers know at a glance how many cures they need is bad somehow? Because if they know ahead of time it will change how many cures they need? I'm at a complete and total loss on that one....
    Daalilama and quisling like this.
  7. Kahling Member

    In the past Dev's have argued that Paladins get cures and heals as part of their defensive tanking abilities, and the cure has worked since it was introduced in EOF in 2006 up until the May update 2018 so 12 years by my math :) the caviat to it has always been it doesnt cure trauma, and then the group cure is a long recast and slow to cast.
  8. Adaac Member

    They broke them for SK also very frustrating that aa cures and heals do not scale with content
  9. Rebelde Active Member

    Same for SK. Only can cure 117 levels, so the AA is USELESS. I opened a post few months ago. Answer was /crickets...........
    Meneltel likes this.
  10. Legionair Member

    I feel its obvious they intended for that to happen this time around, they probably want the cures to be More reliant for healers and to be honest, even though I may not agree with it but I'm sure that was intended because if you could cure the group like the normal heroics it would definitely make the expert zones way easier, probably even too easy for the Devs taste. Its a crappy deal, but yeah they aren't going to change that.
    Wozz likes this.
  11. Rebelde Active Member

    @Gninja please, we need an official answer. Are you going to fix this or not? At the beginning of the expansion, mages couldn't cure themself because their cure didn't scale properly. We are almost in the last 3-4 months of the expansion and you didn't fix the crusader AA and seems that you don't have any intention to do it... or yes but you don't say anything.
    And what makes me crazy is that Doom Judgment VI
    They can dispell 355 levels!!!!!!!! But not cure 118
    Please, an anwer.
    Thank you
  12. Gninja Developer


    I don't work with player abilities but yes, it is intended that the non-priest cures do not cure above level 117 detriments. I don't know if there are plans to change that but I will confirm that it IS intended. Now having said that, that doesn't mean it should be used everywhere (meaning casting detriments above 117) if there are specific fights that are next to impossible to cure due to only priests able to cure them I can take a look (at raids at least) and determine if that encounter specifically needs to require that sort of thing. I know it's not exactly the answer you wanted but hopefully, it gives a little insight.
    Breanna and Dude like this.
  13. Adoninilol Well-Known Member

    It's intended for abilities designed to do something like cure, not cure the group?

    That is kind of odd.
  14. Gninja Developer

    No, its intended that priests are able to cure higher level detriments than non-priests.
    Breanna and Dude like this.
  15. Adoninilol Well-Known Member

    But if a spell at it's base is designed to "cure" why would it not cure, why not redesign the ability if you don't intend it to work then.
  16. Gninja Developer

    I understand the confusion. I really do. Its done in conjunction with making most content that is not level 118. That way only the very difficult zones/encounters would require priest cures and all other content would be able to be cured by anyone with the ability to cure, even if not as good as priests. It's not overly different from mezzing, stunning, etc. They are usable in easier content as well, typically. We have at times strayed away from that sort of setup but if you can point out specific encounters where that is not the case we can take a look.
  17. Mermut Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure if the.. extremely large.. number of cures is an attempt to 'force' raids to have two healers per group and/or if it's supposed to make healers 'relevant' or 'fun'...
    I have to say, as a healer, dets that land in groups of 5 and have to be cured are not fun.. especially not when the seem to be the 'tactic du jour' of this expac.
    Daalilama and Rebelde like this.
  18. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

    I dislike the fights where you have to have multiple single-target cures on every member of the raid to avoid a wipe condition.
    Meneltel and Rebelde like this.
  19. Gninja Developer

    Raid encounters that have an AE with multi-cures should allow anyone to cure (as in should be level 117 or lower) Only encounters intended to have a cure check for priests should be 118+. If multiple dets land on the raid and they have to be cured your non-priest raiders should be helping out with potions or any cures they possess.
    Rosyposy likes this.
  20. Ingerimm Well-Known Member

    I can only agree with Kahling here.

    Why do we have paladins and shadowknights class abilities, which should work only in certain content, that makes no sense at all, apart from the fact that it is unfair compared to the alternative classes to each other.

    There are many points of criticism in the comparison of the classes, because the basic orientations of the classes are no longer balanced.

    Personally, I can only speak explicitly about the paladin here.
    • 1. The basic orientation of the paladin used to be that the paladin, of the paladin was the only tank class with an aggro transfer. As a shortbuff for the group with "sigl of heroism" and permanently buff for single target with "amends"
    • 2. Furthermore, the paladin was one of 3 tank classes (paladin, shadowknight, monk) who could heal, but has less defensive tools. Especially almost no tools against directly fatal damage.
    • 3. The exclusive abilities to resurrect and cure of all magical effects.
    • 4. The better resistance to magic damage.
    Over time, the exclusive skills were also given partly to the other tank classes.
    • To 1. The guardian has got 2 permanent aggro transfers over the time of game development, one for the group and one for a single target. Thus, the exclusiveness of this ability for the paladin has been lost.
    • To 2. The berserker has over time the ability to heal massively by back heals, also here disappears the exclusivity of the 3 tank classes, but nothing lost in other defensive tools. Just as the guard for the aggro transfers. And the heal of the healing tank classes where reduced over the years step by step.
    • To 3. Now you limit the exclusive ability to cure of us paladins and shadowknights on certain content. What, please, do the other tank classes get restrictions on their exclusive capabilities?
    • 4. The better resilience to magic damage is long gone, either the damage is fatal, where paladin and shadowknights have virtually no tools against it, or the damage is not reducible, resulting in the same result as the defensive tools of the crusaders largely based on mitigation.The paladin does have a single stoneskin to skill, which consumes on Damage greater 15% of the MaxHP, so usually immediately. A guard for comparison, I believe 17 pieces of stoneskins, which he can almost completely rotate, with a small gap.Which is better as by stoneskins immune against any damage to 100% and be any amount of damages?
    The paladin's reflect has been converted to be a by hit damage proc, with the proc effects only working 50% correctly since the beginning of PoP.

    Of course, the guardian was still able to trigger his reflect with 3 stored damage triggers as it was. them was not changed to by hit damage procs.

    Let's move on to single focus, why does a guard get at 100% AE autoattack => 100% flurry and 50% ability doublecast when he activates his single-focus?

    No other class else gets an advantage here.

    What about aggro snaps and aggro bounds?
    • Only guardians, berserkers, monks and bruisers own them.
    The paladin once had an AE aggro snap, with "Holy Ground" but this was quickly taken away and converted into a +1 hate position ability.

    Thus, the paladin and the shadowknights have no abilities in this area and are allowed to see how they can handle memwipes.

    What about tools to protect the group?
    • The paladin can lower magic damage by 40% for 10 seconds every 90 seconds for the group and reduce all damage by 32% for 10 seconds once every 60 seconds.
    • The guardian can almost permanently reduce all damage to the group by 50%, plus one more time for a single target in the group.
    The paladin still has the ability to have a fear immune to skill, but again there are encounters that ignore this ability. Also a content restriction, normally one is immune or not, but not only sometimes immune or do I see that wrong?

    In my view, all in all, the guardians has all the benefits and this class has no restrictions on its content-related abilities, as it is now the goal of the crusaders.

    Here I see a massive unfairness in the abilities of the classes to each other.
    Here, the developers should really think about whether this is Right.
    Meneltel, SteveB and Earar like this.