Eliminate Weaponsmith and Woodworkers!!!

Discussion in 'Tradeskills' started by Meirril, Feb 25, 2018.

  1. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

    I beg to differ. Mastercrafted armor and gear, experimented all the way, is extremely good. Mastercrafted Expert spells shave time off researching spell quality. You always need good food and drink. Etc.
  2. Earar Well-Known Member

    "not much use", not "no use"
  3. Meirril Well-Known Member

    Weaponsmith, Armorer, Tailor, Woodworker: classes that are hurt by current itemization.
    That leaves 5 classes where current itemization doesn't affect them.

    Actually 2 of them are completely itemization immune (provisioner and carpenter). The other 3 benifit from the high demand for spell upgrades and low availability of master spells. The more time passes the closer the supply of masters gets to meeting the demand but that is very acceptable. Jewelry is in low demand since we all got a full set at the beginning of PoP, and Alchemist potions are usually useless anyways. Poison has recently become effective again, there was a long period of time where it was easy to ignore.

    Part of the problem with potions is the disparity between hardcore and casual players. Anything made for casuals is no challenge for hardcore players. Anything made to challenge hardcore players is inaccessible for casuals. Trying to make temp buffs that come from items to work for both groups is quite frankly an exercise in frustration. It should be obvious, but the Alchemist and players in general would be better off if Dev decided to balance potions around raid content so hardcore players would actually use them, and casual players could be amazed at the performance. Of course that will not happen, because dev wouldn't want to hear the complaining from raiders about making potions a raid necessity. Its much easier on them to make them mostly useless than making them good because people don't complain as much.

    Suck on that crafters, bitter truth hurts.

    Anyways, it means crafters are "mostly useless" because that is what works best for the EQ2 community ever since Desert of Flames had god tier crafted armor and Kingdom of Sky was the new pattern for crafting ever since.

    If you want crafted items to be end game, get the raiders to ask for crafting materials instead of actual drops. That would actually benefit them since every class could use the materials instead of getting stuck with extra fighter drops after their 2 tanks are equipped but the rest of the raid force is still gearing up. Or introduce a NPC that trades crafting material for raid drops, and the crafting mats make low tier fabled gear.

    Of course none of this helps crafters that aren't raiders. Whoever controls supply benefits and considering the perks for max crafter/adventurers now its not like raid forces are short on "crafters".
  4. Finora Well-Known Member



    Except crafted items weren't useless until much later than KOS. That came with Velious I think it was, where every item that dropped was legendary or better. And of course those were superior to the crafted.

    Crafted was a viable option for at least some slots until then for at least casual players.
    Mermut and Tekka like this.
  5. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

    Crafter armor and jewelry made from refined rares and experimented to Visionary is better than the stuff in the freebie box at the start of PoP. It's better than the Legendary drops from overland beasts. I've been told that a full set of Visionary Mastercrafted is sufficient for a beginning raider (I have not raided yet this expansion, but I trust those I have raided with to tell me truthfully).

    Is it a major PITA to have to harvest or buy the rares, refine them, craft them, then experiment on them five times? Yep. But at this level, crafting has long been too easy. I'm a survivor from the days of worts and when the forge could and would kill you, and honestly, I'm kind of glad it's not idiot-simple to craft a decent piece of gear.

    If you're just blasting through the minimum in Plane of Magic to get to the Coliseum of Valor and able to do group content there, this might not be a time investment you'd want to make. But I'm working through the whole questline for the expansion, and once I got to 105 and put on my Mastercrafted Refined Visionary gear, it became like slicing a hot knife through butter. In fact, I can swap in my Cloak of the Harvester, Earring of the Solstice, and Gi of the Ashen Artisan to make harvesting while I quest easier, and my Gathering Goblin merc kills everything that jumps me while I am harvesting without my assistance, and I can still easily handle the overland mobs.

    Why demand that classes be removed? If you hate a given crafting class, go change it to one you like. Or just don't craft on that toon. Or something. Weaponsmiths and Woodworkers have always had sorta sad inventories of recipes. Don't tell me that you got to a level 100 crafter in these trades and didn't realize that.
    Lateana likes this.
  6. Meirril Well-Known Member

    Think I explained that well enough in the OP? But lets give the short version: Weaponsmith is a sad little class that dev tried to make less sad by throwing them shields so they can maybe get people interested in their 2 slots worth of gear. Armorers got all hurt that they lost shields and whined because their 7 slots of actual armor isn't enough, they need that secondary slot item too. The only value a weaponsmith really has is when you need them for quests. So why not get rid of the class and make the weaponsmiths slightly happier?

    And if you get rid of one, why not combine 2 other weak classes to make a better one? The other 5 classes are strong enough that combining them doesn't make sense, and it shouldn't be done.

    And this isn't about me, this is about the poor suckers that think making weapons sounds cool and get their little hearts broken somewhere around level 40. Then they want their epic 2.0 and they get heartach forced on them again. And again. And again. Lets break the chain of pain and make crafting great. Not again, weaponsmith has always sucked.
    ConcealFate likes this.
  7. Mermut Well-Known Member

    You can get the needed resolve and the hitpoints, but the potency on the MC jewelry (even refined and visionary) is only on par with the gear from the solo instances. You'd have the resolve and maybe the hit points to survive (if you've got a shaman in your group and you're not a tank), but you won't be contributing to actually taking the mobs down.
  8. semisus Does not play this game

    If they just added new recipes for the research assistant where someone would need someone from a varius tradeskill class with the recipe to craft it then crafting would become more useful
    Like someone got a drop from heroic or raid and needs someone with xx recipe to commision it for them
  9. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

    Your argument makes no sense to me. Since there are mechanisms to change your crafting class, no one is "stuck" with a class they loathe. And given that you need all crafting classes for Proof of the Pudding, I don't see there being any likelihood of DBG ever deleting crafting classes. /shrug
  10. Finora Well-Known Member


    While I think it's never going to work to combine classes like that, saying that you can just switch classes because your's is garbage is a very weak argument.

    Weapon smiths need the devs to actually do something to make them worthwhile. Their weapons haven't really been worth making in years outside of doing writs and since writs no longer count towards guild xp, people only need weaponsmiths for quest updates, which is a GAME problem, not a personal problem that is solved by just ignoring it and doing something else.
  11. Cheallaigh Well-Known Member

    i flat out object to this idea, nor can i see it happening. i have all the tradeskillers and they're getting a decent amount of use. your suggestion would seriously impact the server i play. there's no way they could do it without breaking a TLE, where they are used.
    Lateana likes this.
  12. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

    Now THAT'S an argument that makes sense. Nuking a class because you don't like it isn't gonna happen, but beefing up useful recipes for subpar crafting classes is the way to go.
    Lateana and Juraiya like this.
  13. Ruckus Well-Known Member

    Let weaponsmiths and woodworkers be able to craft swords and bows (that use 2 rares - like rare metal + rare hide = sword and rare wood + rare root = bow), so we can then break them down to infuse into our weapons. It would then suck up the stacks of rares that I've gotten since launch and people would then be giving the WS and WW their business.
    Lateana likes this.
  14. Meirril Well-Known Member

    So your answers are reroll and needed for quests? I already said above that quest crafting would be covered by giving the combined class all of the recipes both classes would get. I don't think anyone is going to scream that its unfair that Blacksmith gets 2 PoP recipes.

    As for reroll, I suppose Swashbuckers, Chanters, and Druids should all reroll too? There is a big difference between those adventuring classes and Weaponsmith: The adventuring classes have a chance of becoming needed again. I'll post the problems with fixing Weaponsmith in the next post.
  15. Meirril Well-Known Member


    Weaponsmith can't be fixed. The basic problem with Weaponsmith is that the class only produces gear for 2 slots, and the gear they produce are the most frequent reward and drop in the game. Unless weaponsmith start making either better gear than drops, or things other than weapons there is no fixing them.

    Armorer is kind of in the same boat, but its not easy to get a full set of armor from drops or even questing at most levels. Even when full sets are dropped at a level, spending enough time to farm a full set and you'll usually outlevel the equipment before you get a full set. Crafting fills in the holes, and it provides initial gear that is hard to replace.

    Tailors are even stronger because they make as much gear as Armorers as well as bags, quivers, sometimes belts, sometimes charms, cloaks, thrown weapons and some weapons.

    Jeweler is in a much better position since you have way more slots to work with. Also they have combat arts they can make. So much better than Armorers and Tailors combined because you make gear for all classes, not just half of them.

    So, what is really breaks down to is how much demand can be generated for you're stuff. Jewelers 14 slots all classes. Tailors 10 slots and half the classes. Armorer 7 or 8 slots and half the classes. Weaponsmith 2 slots and all the classes. Weaponsmith was just a bad idea from day one.
    ConcealFate likes this.
  16. Meirril Well-Known Member

    Yes, I'm sure all of the weaponsmiths that gained all those armor recipes from being combined with them would be so delighted they would refuse to make weapons ever again. Also the armorers wouldn't realize they could make weapons or even notice the class changed names. All 12 people on the TLE server would riot and quit.
  17. ConcealFate Well-Known Member

    Weaponsmith is a useless class. Yes, it could be merged with armorer to create a "smith". A woodworker, which has a slightly higher playability than a weaponsmith, could be merged with a carpenter as well. Carpenters serve no purpose other than "fun" items anyway, throw them a bone with the ability to make arrows and totems. Not very difficult to make it happen.
  18. Kelvmor Active Member

    On AB, at least, Carpenter is a very profitable profession. As is weaponsmith; there's all kinds of great weapons that I've had people begging me to commission for them for appearance.
    ConcealFate and Cheallaigh like this.
  19. ConcealFate Well-Known Member


    I agree that carpenter is probably the most popular as well as profitable of the TS classes in most circles. I love making all the things they can produce. But as for weaponsmith....still the bottom of the barrel and I wish that wasn't so. I have tried to think of ways that it could be a more useful profession and just come up blank.
  20. Cheallaigh Well-Known Member

    you're being too eager to mock and not getting what i was saying.

    any changes for live, especially ones like this, affect the paying TLE servers. a large change like this could break tradeskilling, while those on live are more likely to be able to do without some tradeskillers(devs already have far less interest in tradeskillers anyhow), TLEs cannot. something like this would affect all servers and so do the screwups that happen when they try and change old code.