What is the incentive for returning players?

Ahhh, 'Kander's statement." Or it could be Holly's statement, Roxxly's statement, etc. For years it was always Smokejumper's fault/attitude, etc. Funny, no one has ever been snarky about SH.

Kander is not the only person to use that phrase. Many, many, many players over the years have used that phrase. Generally responses are just as, if not more, snarky. Heck, I know I've been on both sides of the fence at times. Yep, used that statement and responded as a snark. It's easy to do/say when one is passionate about their favorite game.

So a dev said it? Whoop-dee-freaking-dee. No, the devs are not our personal slaves to constantly whip whenever our little noses are bent out of shape. Harping on a comment for ever and ever and ever is just not productive to either party's viewpoint. You want a clean slate? GIVE a clean slate.

I keep having to take time off due to an injury(it affects the use of one hand, and dec was the last time I played for any real length)... came back in august, took one look at the fiasco KA was and went to FG, where I can at least play with people.

You skipped the part where you have to get your ascension to level 10 which is behind heavy gating mechanics in between the get AA and run your 2.0 haha

This is exactly what my group did when we decided to give EQ2 another try a couple months ago. After 2 days of research we promptly went right to the TLE server.

Now we are all old school EQ1 players and spent a great deal of time in PoP, so we are REALLY hopeful that they will simplify the system significantly, or at least give returning players a significant enough boost so that we only need to put in a week or two of catching up. As it stands you are looking at possibly months of grinding just to get raid ready ... which again WOULD BE FINE if I was doing it when everyone else was ... I play MMOs to be with other people, not to solo grind old content.

This.

AA and Epic 2.0 can be completed in a couple weeks, most guilds you can join as a new/returning player have people more than willing to help complete the epic quest lines.

The big grind is the Ascensions. While you may only really need to get one ascension to 10, you are not really competitive until you get all 4 .... which can take MONTHS of work. This needs to change and be accomplishable (not a word) within the first week, MAYBE two of the release of PoP via some sort of catch up mechanic. If it's not, they are going to loose a lot of returning players that are very excited about the release of one of the most iconic EQ1 expansions, PoP.

You go to live servers for a week and you're already blue pilled by the masses. That's a shame. You don't need a tome to be competetive. Check out Valdim, our brigand. He has no tome. He started the game in April. Bought the xpac in July, and now has only 2 ascension classes fully complete. He is top 5 when we don't have our 7-8 conjurors (3 of which parse highly with no tome. Check Ntai.) I feel like most people who complain about the current xpac haven't played enough to have a good idea of the situation it is in. Play for yourself. Don't listen to others. Catch-up isn't much worse than any other xpac.

Thank you for your response here Snikkety.

I would love to play KA, but we literally just started a week ago. We hit level 90 (leveling up the long way and enjoying the little instances along the way) and in the time remaining before PoP launches we plan on getting ready for it by focusing on our epics, ascension class(s) and augments (I heard a rumor that they would still be useful at 110).

I am very glad to hear that you can be competitive with only 2 ascension classes, but the fact remains, it takes a pretty significant timesink to get there right now, and with PoP launching in weeks(ish) I just want to be able to play the current content with the masses. It sounds like I will be able too, but still, I really hope they find some way to reduce the Ascension grind even more than they already did with the panda quests.

Kander is not a player so the comparison is false. If you frequent a business and complain only to have other patrons tell you that if you don't like it don't do business there that is a far cry from having the manager of that business tell you that if you don't like it don't do business there. One is annoying, the other is not only unprofessional but it's literally the opposite of what a person employed by the business should be doing to help it be prosperous.


Players exaggerate and say stupid things all the time. This thread alone is just another example if that. Kander should be held to a higher standard. in my eyes there are plenty of explanations for why Kander made that statement, but there is nothing that can nor should excuse it.

Indeed it was a bad choice of words,

It wasn't impressive, but I do feel we should cut the guy some slack about it some time. How about we get back on topic, pray for proving grounds to be nuked from orbit (It's the only way to make sure) and say: -

"Give me booze, song and fun" and

"Grind in proportion, not in Vast Excess"

I just don't get the mindset that demands instant parity with players who have been in the game for years.

A drastic "reset" like that would drive current subs away. Mine included. Anytime you start sacrificing the accomplishments of a loyal, long term player base to the demands of the flighty, game hopping "new" players who'll likely only be around for a few weeks anyway. You'll lose in the long run.

To all the folks here saying that they are looking for a (more or less) clean slate with the expansion I can only say look to EQ2 history. In nearly every case where level cap has increased, it has effectively wiped the slate clean.

The expansions that tried using other mechanics for a tabula rasa have generally been the ones where people tended to get disappointed.

It makes sense really, though I understand the conflict that it engenders in the developers. There is nothing that trivializes old content like a level cap increase. Mobs that were deep orange are suddenly blue. Lesser mobs even more trivial. I get why that might be frustrating on the developer side, but from the player base side, it does make catching up somewhat less onerous.

This, to me, makes no sense.

MMO's have operated under this concept for . . . well, since pretty much ever. And what do they have to show for it? A shrinking player base? A general consensus among the MMO community that something isn't right with the genre as a whole?

How is the fun of a long term player impacted when a new player starts the game and in four months or so can participate in the same content as someone who has been in since launch? It seems like it should be the opposite. Isn't it a good thing when new players join the bulk of the population in the activities that most are involved in?

Listen, I'm a big believer that within current content (whatever that is), every player should have equal opportunity to participate. Their success should come down to the time they spend, the effort they put in and the skill / knowledge they bring to the table. Every player "can" raid, yes, and if they put in the requisite amounts of the above, they should reap the rewards. Hardest content, highest demands, highest reward. Meritocracy.

However, forcing new players to jump through hundreds of fiery hoops in order to participate meaningfully with the greater population isn't a formula for success. It's a formula for frustration. It's a formula for a dwindling population of increasingly jaded participants wondering why no one wants to come play.

If someone can jump back into the game after years of absence and be on par with those that ground out the expac in only a few days....why would anyone grind and play?

Sounds like some folks want to play an arcade game and not an RPG.

Well, given what they said in the livestream they were going to be doing, I guess you'll be a bit unhappy.

They are going to have a guy you can just get gear for the expansion at right at the start (think like beta merchant except permanent) and apparently the ascension scrolls will flow with no time gating like we saw with KA.

That with the level increase will certainly help keep feeling like there is no point.

That is not what most people are asking for.

Most people are asking for reasonable allowances so they aren't made to feel like there is no point in coming back. Knowing that you have a year worth of 'catching up' to do with time gated stuff and huge amounts of grinding is pretty off putting. Even if you haven't left Eq2, the massive grind has been off putting.

I've never been away from Eq2, but I know when some friends wanted me to jump back on Eq1 a couple of years ago after I'd stopped playing that game in 2004, I pretty much logged on, looked at my character still wearing gear I'd gotten in the original Planes of power and the sheer number of AA points I did not have and told them...nah, I'm good. I imagine the same sorts of things happen with people returning to Eq2 and seeing all the stuff in KA.


Happily, as I said earlier, it sounds like the devs listened and have lessened the grind a bit.

I disagree. It doesn't sounds like a full reset/clean slate with all previous work (ascension, epic 2.0, etc) wiped out. It's just a standard 'we're adding 10 lvls' style reset.

Doesn't matter...this is all just hyperbole anyway. The new xpac is here.

We'll all be playing it...or not...as each chooses.

From what i gathered on the live stream thgis will be a VERY alt/old returning character friendly expansion with not near as much back stuff to have to do to play. Pretty much level 100 and get gear from a merchant and you are ready to go. Now, granhted you'll be at the low end of the scale but it appears that you can jump in right away whereas in the past you would be seriously gimped compared to others. I'm sure the people who have raided and kept up with everything will have a def advantage but it seems like the feeling of not being able to do much of anything that previous expansions have had might be a thing of the past.