**PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE* Bring Back PVP**

*heavy sigh*

That's too bad.

I can tell you right now the lists on Flames are wrong because I watched Onyx kill some of the avatars on that list in early 07 and they are not listed. There was even a big deal about people getting kicked out of game trying to go to Lavastorm to contest the avatar of war.

Before you make claims of right and wrong, I would like to remind you that the Avatar of Flame was in Lavastorm, and the Avatar of War was in Zek.

Onyx killing an Avatar on the Nagafen server does not mean they killed it fast enough to make the WW progression list. If you want to claim Onyx was the best raid guild on Nagafen, then by all means go ahead. But claims that Onyx were WW#1 for so long it was crazy, is incredibly inaccurate.

Oh well

You are correct on which avatar it was my mistake.

Still does not change the fact that your "" official list "" is wrong seeing as Onyx is not listed on them as killing any avatar and I know they did, and yes the did it soon enough seeing as the list was posted in Feb 08. As for your dismissal of any claim other than your own as to the WW rankings I would say that since your source is flames.......... well if you do not know its the biggest troll site for EQ2. I do not know what to tell ya. I was trying to avoid going there but it is what it is.




Edit to add: That first part is what happens when someone is wrong or incorrect and are able to admit it. Yes I do expect to see it in some of the replies since others are wrong as well.

Wonder how long they are going to let this drivel go on before locking this thread. The original intent of the post has become lost in the epeen chase for pixelated greatness...again. And in a PVP thread no less, astounding - who'd a thunk it!

I am not saying Onyx never killed an Avatar. I know they killed many of them. Unfortunately, the Avatar kill lists (in the 3 links I provided) did not continue to track Avatar kills after the 10th guild.

I am saying:

• Onyx failed to kill Avatars quick enough to make the top 10 lists.
• Onyx failed to clear zones/expansions quick enough to show up on the top 10 lists.
• Onyx was never in contention for being WW#1 raiding guild.

I have spoken with a number of people, and asked if they recall an era where Onyx was dominating the world wide raid progress scene. Unfortunately, yourself and Twinbladed seem to be the only people I have communicated with, that remembers the mysterious years where Onyx allegedly dominated world wide raid progression.

Just checking, you do understand the difference between being best on server, and best in the world, right?

Yes, it is what it is. Even if you do not like it, EQ2Flames was the most active site for WW raid progression in that era. I have brought information to the discussion, which indicates Onyx was not nearly as good as you suggest. If Onyx actually was the world wide best raid guild for so many years it was crazy, it should be very easy for you to find information to support your position.

I look forward to reviewing any information that supports your position.

Have a good day.

Onyx was never in contention for a #1 spot on a worldwide level.
There were a few instances where they touched the top 10 on a particular fight, but that didn't happen that often.

Here's some threads:

http://www.eq2flames.com/nagafens-greatest-threads/33-nagafen-past-present-2033.html#post260492 (EoF, No Dates)
http://www.eq2flames.com/nagafens-greatest-threads/33-nagafen-past-present-3555.html#post343842 (RoK, With Dates)
http://www.eq2flames.com/nagafens-g...afens-past-present-2-0-a-1940.html#post775024 (TSO, With Dates)

Blue server contested kills do not count because they never had to fend off multiple raids from multiple factions while simultaneously managing the actual raid.

/Threadwonbypvpservers
/initiateteabagging
/equip jumpyboots
/jumpoverblueservercomments
/logoutmaintainforumkillcount

Haha! Don't forget to equip a safe fall cloak to help with a graceful getaway.
FYI: Thunderous Pantaloons are the BiS to equip whilst teabagging.

EQ2 never was designed nor intended to be PvP.... EQ2 is a fundamentally PvE game. Not every game needs PvP. PvP was a massive failure in EQ2

Onyx didn't compete as a top 10 WW raid guild until TSO and into SF. Raiding on a pvp server is completely different from pve.
The first problem was not being able to have all the classes in raid. This was solved by staying in exile which wasn't possible until EoF, i believe.
Next problem was farming contested mobs for gear. Not so easy on a pvp server but lots of fun. Another major obstacle was recruitment.
Exile led to many penalties in game play. There was no shared bank between alts. The broker was useless, making farming for plat difficult. Hard to buy masters on ****** broker and no plat. If you decided you didn't like exile and wanted to go back to faction all your abilities rolled back to app1. If you are a top raid guild you understand how important it is to be able to recruit new players. Players couldn't transfer from other servers to PvP server. NPU, Strike etc. could recruit from anywhere.
Despite all the factors negatively impacting raiding on Naggy, Onyx was still able to push into top 10 by TSO and into SF.
When BG gear came out with pvp stats there was no reason to raid anymore on naggy as raid gear became useless in pvp. Most good players quit. Onyx and Purity merged going full PvE, ultimately leaving the server and becoming Sovin NaiZ.
So technically speaking Onyx wasn't on many WW top 10 lists but we did get there eventually and did it hard mode, having a lot more fun doing it.
Raiding on a pvp server made people better players. We had to work together and help each other to survive. If you were weak, greedy or a big ***** you didn't make it. PvP > PvE

I am not concerned with your reasons as to why you think Onyx was at a disadvantage. What gained my attention is the claim made by others, that Onyx dominated world wide raid progression for so many years it was crazy. In both TSO and SF, Onyx failed to make any the top 10 lists for clearing zones. Onyx managed to squeak in a handful of top10 lists for individual mobs within a zone, but they were never a contender for WW #1 raid guild. It would seem we both agree on that particular point?

As for Sovin NaiZ? I could make a case that it was the intake from a previously successful PVE raid guild (that folded), and not the intake from Nagafen, which made that guild a top5 contender. Even if you disagree, that is not the point I am contending at this time. I stand by my opposition to claims made by Twinbladed and Thetmes, that Onyx was the WW #1 raid guild for so many years it was crazy.

Onyx did a lot of good things, especially for being a guild on a PVP server. If someone asked me which PVP guild had the most raid progression success over the history of PVP servers, my first response would be Onyx. But that does not make them the #1 raid guild in the world.

PvP has repeatedly failed. PvE still exists. PvP<PvE.

This is what I miss about Deathtoll, particularly the Shattered Lands. Was really fun having 60 man 3 way fights over things like Knubed.

We're going to go ahead and put this one to bed. There are no plans for a major PvP update at this time. If that changes we will certainly let everyone know about it.