The T4's that are left

Discussion in 'Zones and Populations' started by Yards, May 13, 2017.

  1. Earar Well-Known Member

    the dream keeper .. with the healers needing to kill ghosts. If u DPS too much .. too many healers got cursed at the same time and u end up wiping.

    the golem also in arcanna'se. killing the statues. Now we just place 2 groups, one in each room ... to kill the statues while 2 groups are on named, and we still need to be carefull on named DPS while people at the statues are a bit bored .. especially if only one color ups many time in a row

    and at the same time u changed raenha so the fight would be smoother, the hobgoblin too
  2. Gninja Developer

    There is no panic script on this though. The adds spawn based on health percentage so I can see why you are saying that you need to stop dps but the adds are pretty much able to be one shot and you can have a few up without having too many. Maybe try spawning the number you CAN have up at once and sending people to kill them at same time instead of spawning one stopping dps and making a sandwich between each add. :) These are just suggestions though as you might have a better strat to save time without triggering the too many adds thing. I will take a look at the number of adds and see if its just too many and possibly make adjustments to it.

    Honestly, the original design for this encounter was that you should have needed the whole raid in the middle to keep up with the spawned adds then have a group or two run to kill the side objectives. With the spike dps being so high only a few people were needed so players started just leaving people at the spots because it required less coordination. I get that but that doesnt mean you are being forced to sit there and do nothing. I don't see a need for change in that one but I am willing to listen to further explanation as to why you are forced to stop and do nothing.
  3. Yards Well-Known Member

    I guess we disagree in that the developer's take responsibility for the balance being off. Saying the dev's take responsibility and the dev's taking responsibility is 2 different things. The action that was taken on bad game balance was too further punish the player base by making entire raiding afk time. In all fairness you took one big problem (game balance) and made 2 huge problems (1.game balance, 2. game participation/enjoyment). I know I am coming off as an a$$ but I am trying to be brutally honost. I could literally make a youtube video of eq2's entire current raid content and show how 95% of the raid content is afk time. I could go a step further and add in the vent chat where the raid leader is asking everyone to not dps on the majority of fights and then hear him cry that we did too much dps and insta wiped the raid.

    I know this doesn't fall on you but your the only one who actually responds. The game is going to be impossible to balance when ascension abilities are this much more powerful than class abilities. It's a nightmare if you think about it, the spike from ascension abilities in the first 15 to 20 seconds of a fight is about the same amount of damage the same raid could do without ascension abilities in like 3 minutes time. With 24 people each having these 3 or 4 abilities each, on an extremely long recast, it is going to make raid balancing near impossible. These extremely high hitting abilities make it so you are always going to be front loading an insane amount of damage in the beginning of an encounter. Ascension abilities were not thought out well at all, extremely high damage on extremely long recast = no good for anyone. It's hard to develope encounters around them, it's boring to play with them (hitting a couple abilities every few minutes and have them do the majority of dps is boring to me) it is just all around bad.

    The underlying blame doesn't fall on you I understand. I just get really frustrated because I want to raid and not have to log in then go afk and hit /follow macro a few times. I am already at the point where I dread showing up to raid. I've ran out of things to watch on my 2nd monitor, if you know of any awesome tv shows or movies I can watch while I'm raiding, I'm up to suggestions.
  4. Akoriv Member

    If we cast start using CAs & spells we blow away the boss' HP so fast, we'll get 4 priests cursed and wipe. Sure, the adds dies fast enough, but we spend most of our time waiting for the priests to get in range so they can kill them. When your movement is nerfed to combat movement speeds and you have to take out 14 or 15 adds before you can safely nuke the boss, we spend 3-4 minutes just waiting for the priest to get in range, while everyone does nothing except auto-attack.

    I have talked to people in other guilds killing this boss, and no one I know has found any special trick to get around sitting on your upright thumb, while the priests run the length and breadth of the room to get in range to hit the adds.
  5. Kioske Well-Known Member

    I think with the disparity in stats from top guilds to lower guilds, the easiest fix would be to just add 4-5x more HP onto the T3 mobs and remove the panic/enrage scripts from them entirely. Top guilds would still kill it in short order, lesser guild would still be able to kill it, just take longer, and no one has to complain about panic scripts. Working together to kill a raid boss as fast as possible is supposed to be rewarded with the easy kill, not punished by adding a script that kills your raid force. Also, if the scripts typically start 5 seconds into an encounter, why not set the panic scripts at 15-20 seconds instead of 90 seconds?

    There has been a lot of stuff that changed in "AFKedenmoore" the last couple of months to make 2 of the 3 T1s in the zone less annoying, and that is very very much appreciated. Fyi, if you don't kill at least 1 mob on the first in AFKedenmoore, you get a panic script, which shouldn't exist. Are you required to cure at least 1 curse on Memory of Souls, or move one of his adds away? Same for Order and Chaos? Probably shouldn't be giving you ideas :p but in all honestly, I don't understand the idea of adding in a punishment for fights that are "too easy" for some raid forces. Instead of adding in a punishment, add more HPs, remove things that bloat stats on "top guilds" way out of proportion compared to where they should have ever been in the first place. As someone said, tithe requires way too much grinding, an every day player grinding 2-3 hours a day should be able to max that in a few months, not a few years. (Unless you guys are getting paid per hour we are logged in, in which case I suppose, carry on)

    We know you love your game and want it to be the best product you can offer, we're here to offer feedback. I don't suggest you change everything you have to everything we say it should be, but you should take into consideration that we pay for a product and the product should be enjoyable. I've lost a lot of friends, and a few raiders, to zones like AFKedenmoore. Simply because they didn't want to sit on their hands so much, and then you guys put out the expert zones (before the nerf) that had horrific enrage timers of 8-10 minutes that only the top 5-10 guilds could even come close to completing, while at the same time telling us to slow down on the other encounters because we were doing waaaaaay too much DPS.
  6. Earar Well-Known Member


    I follow my raid leader's orders :). yeah there's no panic script you're right, but at first we were doing as u said, full raid on the guardian and one group running back and forth. But now if we do that, we would mostly be AFK the whole fight while one group runs everywhere to kill the statues. And even with only 2 groups on the guardian, they need to be carefull so his health doesn't drop too fast.

    for the dreamkeeper we do that, we take her down and the healers go kill their stuff. We still need to be really carefull, we still wipe often on her coz we are a bit too ... awake for the fight :/ and just cast everything before realising there are 10 curses on the raid. then we wipe, we do it again and I just auto attack ... it's safer :)
  7. Kioske Well-Known Member

    PM me and I will give you the "easy mode" blow through strat on that boss
  8. Gninja Developer


    Not going to get into an argument here. That is counter productive.

    As far as I am concerned, we are taking responsibility in that we are NOT removing the panic scripts in favor of health or combat mit increases because it would take these encounters out of reach of some guilds that are currently killing them which will have much larger effect than the top guilds having to stop dps or use a more balanced sustained damage instead of spiking all over the place and triggering panic scripts. I understand some might trigger these fails with just a sustained burn and we are looking at other less punishing ways of using the panic scripts (already mentioned earlier) so we are hardly sitting on our hands with this.

    The fact that I am here talking about this instead of ignoring the negativity should say something... In that regard the negativity needs to be toned down for this conversation to continue. We understand you guys are upset or passionate or both but lets have a constructive discussion not a finger pointing match.
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  9. Kioske Well-Known Member

    Also, Gninja, we're not here to fight with you on this, we're here to provide feedback and to help you create a better product. (I think I speak for most people here when I say this lol)
  10. Kioske Well-Known Member

    Then ascension need to be replaced with low damage, faster recasting spells. That's the only solution here. We no longer use rising tide, and we no longer front load ascension and we still run the risk of the panic script... and we're nowhere near the top 5's DPS. So I can only imagine how many people do zero DPS on T3 fights. Telling the top guilds to slow down their DPS so you don't take the raid boss out of reach of the other guilds is a disservice to raiding community, where DPS/strat/skill get you raid boss kills. If those guilds are unable to put those three things together, they don't deserve to kill the mobs, no matter what changes you make to them. It isn't your fault, they need to do better.
  11. Gninja Developer


    Oh I know, I am just trying to keep the ship moving forward so to speak in regard to this thread. Its tough keeping it on target and keeping it constructive. I have no problem with players saying they don't like certain things but don't be aggressive about it and offer solutions and be specific as you possibly can with reporting issues.
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  12. Gaptia Active Member

    Shanaira the prestigious : sometimes we seem to repeat the exactly same things and we wipe. The "all magics" too is not easy to understand. Maybe you can give a little more tip when we wiped.

    Warden of Nightmares : fun encounter
  13. Yards Well-Known Member

    If it is completely out of the question to remove panic scripts, can they at least be changed. Wiping the whole raid is extremely annoying/time consuming etc. Something that could accomplish what you want would be healing it x% amount. So if you take it down to quick, just heal the mob by like 1/2 of the health it is missing or something to that affect. That should essentially make it the same fight for lower end guilds, and make it artificially have more health for the people who have too much dps. High end dps guilds can once again go all out and actually participate.
    Revanu likes this.
  14. Gninja Developer


    Please go back and read my replies more closely...
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  15. Melt Actually plays the game

    What I think would work pretty decently would be a stoneskin/bracer of undoing kind of approach, where if the name was damaged for more than say 50% of it's health in 1 minute, it heals for a percent of scaling damage based on some factor of the dps.
  16. Yoube Active Member

    Are you making a reference to a previous post in regards to Vhaksiz?
  17. -Soteria- Well-Known Member

    On the subject of panic scripts... I don't know what's possible or what you've already done(I see changes in patch notes), but one idea could be instead of wiping the raid, have it heal to full and double its HP or something... Maybe that could make it a challenge mode encounter with a guaranteed drop of the good loot from that fight's loot table(charm from vhaksiz, wrists from rak ashiir/xalgoz etc...) eh? ehhh?

    Other than that... the subject of AFKdenmoor is kinda off topic from T4s, which really is an important subject (though hard to discuss feedback for in any detail without handing out script info).
    Revanu likes this.
  18. Djwidem Member

    I feel as though we are having a hard time bridging underlying mechanism to the emergent properties of those underlying mechanics.

    For instance the underlying mechanism of the panic script creates the emergent property of afk time.

    My point here with suggestions to fix panic scripts and other current raid scripts produce the same emergent properties.

    An example "The Dream Keeper" does not have a panic script. It has a curse that gets applied to healers at a certain %age where they have to kill an add. If you hurt the Dream Keeper too much before the healer kills the add you wipe the raid.

    The underlying mechanism is the curse with the emergent property being afk time.

    To a player there is 0 difference between this mechanic and a panic script b/c the net result is "I sit around doing nothing"

    Does this make sense?

    All of the fights I can think of that have this emergent property are The Kly, The Dream Keeper, Hobgoblin Dude, The Remorseful, The Shade.

    They might be mechanically different, but in the end I think what is unbalanced is the amount of DPS a raid can do and the time it takes for that raid to kill the mob and the amount of dps an individual can do to kill the scripting mechanics.
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  19. Revel Well-Known Member

    I go into Vaedenmoor and sit there, not even attacking the first 3 named because its completely unnecessary. I hold back on the Shade, because we keep triggering his panic script. Terris Thule is the only one I can go full blast on along with the rest of our raid.

    I dunno about you, but I play a game to have fun, and that is not fun. Let's be real. The gear from the T1s in Vaedenmoor I wouldn't even use on my alts and gets crushed for epic infuser fragments by our raid looter. Making them have more annoying mechanics than higher end raid mobs is just silly at this point.

    Warden of Nightmares is a more fun and engaging mechanic, but it still has a panic script. Tired of being punished for having too much DPS. Makes me wanna leave for 2 or 3 months and come back when everything is finally killable and the strats worked out.

    For someone who enjoys speedrunning games, this expansion is painful. Once we've downed a raid mob, it becomes a game to see how fast we can kill it in the future.
  20. Earar Well-Known Member

    exactly in the end of the day .. for a player it's the same. U need to stop dps and watch. May be different for a dev point of view, but we're mere players :)