More Pay 2 Win

Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by Poemaon, Apr 27, 2017.

  1. semisus Does not play this game

    I might be the only one but having to need the earlier versions of spells doesnt sound bad to me , it makes tradeskillers who can make these spells useful again and the adept versions actully worth picking up , as long as they are not as hard to obtain like ascension spells im all for this
    It will lead me to harvest for spell stuiff , ask friends to make spells for me and using/giving/selling a adept/master spells
    When is the last time anyone bought a journeyman spell anyways?
    Yea in the begining the new masters might sell for a fortune! Honestly i miss that , currently masters are 300plat on a broker!
    I fail to see a p2w aspect in this , but i really hope that ascension spells will become more common in next expansion.
    Shmogre and Jrox like this.
  2. captainbeatty451 Well-Known Member

    they said it would be that you do need the tiers. Something about how this makes it fun for crafters or whatever.
  3. Jrox Well-Known Member

    So I need to harvest, find a crafter and maybe find a few recipes. I have dealt with that before in game. Not really a big deal, so long as drop rates are same as before.
    captainbeatty451 likes this.
  4. DoomDrake Well-Known Member

    @Jrox
    You nailed bro :(
    I see very same picture - I do not disdain PUGs but rather run PUG with Keilex and Revanu that some random PUG that "could" stack at such simple place like Baron Heroic Feeder. And problem as I said - with limited time play (most of us have RL) ppl have choose what they do limited time to play. Not THAT many willing dedicate 3-3.5 hours per day of their undivided attention to raiding but outside of those ppl rest are un mass not fit well into PUGs PLUS ppl like hamsters in the wheel keep doing PQs. Net result? unless you have guildies on line or again someone you knew running PUG - grouping is all but dead :(
  5. Kahonen Active Member

    I've got the same open mind about this update that I have for all of them. Let's wait and see.

    What I do find disconcerting is that on the screen capture of the new familiars Inventory page there is an icon for the Station cash marketplace. Haven't seen that on the other pages. Does this mean they're going to selling the familiars?

    [IMG]
  6. Shmogre Well-Known Member


    Looks like both drops and marketplace. From the Thurgadin chat log:
  7. Revel Well-Known Member


    This is absolutely, 100% steaming garbage and I will not support it. If this isn't changed I'm done at the end of this xpac. They've already screwed my alts, this will be the last straw. The current system wasn't a problem, but now they'll try and milk every last cent.
  8. Cloudrat Well-Known Member

    If there is a way to earn things in game, even if it takes years, (which some of us have invested in the game) then it's not P2W . it's that simple.
    Ursa Minor likes this.
  9. Tanix Member

    Pay to win is paying money to circumvent game play, that is the core of what it means. If you pay money to avoid having to do it in the game, then you are Paying to Win what you would have had to win through game play.

    It is that simple.
    Cyrrena, Feldon, Meneltel and 2 others like this.
  10. Tanix Member

    Having to, and choosing to is irrelevant to the basic concept of what "Pay to Win" is. Basically, you have a game and then you have the cheats to avoid having to play the game. These cheats come in many forms, be it exp potions to avoid the intended level speed design, to getting money to avoid having to earn the money in game, to a mount you instantly purchase that provides you a speed bonus that you would have otherwise had to go earn in the game, to instant leveling a character to a certain level, etc.... All of these are "Pay to win" features and have always been such from the first moment they started to add them to games.

    We called them Pay to win back when they first introduced them because they were a means for a player to get around having to actually play the game to achieve something. It doesn't matter if one feels justified for using a cheat or if the company sanctions the cheat, it is still paid bypassing of content in the game. It would be no different if you were to walk up to a GM, slip them some cash and they turned on some cheat features for you, point is... it was paying money to bypass game play.

    Where the game is now is the natural progression of pay to win systems. If you look closely since the inception of these systems in games, you will begin to see game implementations that are specifically designed to encourage store use. In the early days they were small, subtle, basically just aids for people to cheat the game (exp potions, run speed buffs, etc....) to what you are seeing in many of the games today where the entire system is designed around a store market system. Lord of the Rings designed its entire legendary weapon system around the concept of a store specifically to encourage store use and if you look at the many games today that are FTP with these stores, you will notice game systems that follow similar designs that specifically are created to work with the store, be it quest designs, leveling systems, or enhancements, etc... it is all centered around the marketing of "aids" in the store.

    Like I said, Pay To Win has existed in this game since they introduced the stores and where it is now is just the natural progression of these types of pay systems, no different than the many moble app games we see today.
    Cyrrena likes this.
  11. Rainmare Well-Known Member

    when I see 'Pay to Win' I don't see things like the Ascention spells or the like. to me Pay to Win is 'here is the most badass weapon in the game, so badass you will be a god among men, but you can only get it via buying it off our 'super weapon store'. That's Pay to Win to me. there is NO alternative method to acquire something EXCEPT opening your wallet.

    and when the term was first coined, that's exactly what it was. Games that locked content or items entirely behind a in game store or market. you couldn't get them at all without paying more cash for them. SO I don't consider the option to buy the tiers via speeding up your research to be 'Pay to Win' as much as 'Pay cause I am impatient' or 'pay becuase I can't stand my Parse Epeen being smaller then the next guy'

    they also said the new spells would be 'combintations' of earlier spells too. so you might be seeing that out of your new 10 spells, only 1 or 2 might be 'omg want GM NOW'. depending on what they merged and what the spell is.
    Shmogre and Ursa Minor like this.
  12. Cloudrat Well-Known Member



    Well, tomayto tomahto. LOL speeding things up with cash is how convenience stores were born. It's a shame that a community based game designed on social interaction keeps attempting to toss in competitive sports play and the idea there are winners and losers:(
    Cyrrena and Ursa Minor like this.
  13. Tanix Member

    MMORPGs were games before they were chat rooms. The entire point was for people to come together to play a game. If the goal was to socialize, there were already numerous applications that existed to serve this form of interaction.
    Cyrrena and -Soteria- like this.
  14. Cloudrat Well-Known Member



    Potayto potahto lol I believe we are blind men at opposite ends of the same elephant.
  15. Tanix Member

    Your response implies that we are speaking of the same thing, but from subjective positions. My disagreement with your points are based on the meaning of what a game is and established based on the historical progression of MMORPGs.

    Based on that established premise, our positions are no longer ones of mere subjective fancy.
    Cyrrena likes this.
  16. Cloudrat Well-Known Member



    Google game and see how it is defined:)
  17. Tanix Member


    Care to state your premise? There are multiple meanings, are you using the proper context?
  18. Jrox Well-Known Member

    you're both right...you're both wrong...

    You both speak to the same issue, yet your on exact opposite polar ends of the spectrum. I think, if you will, some p2w aspects like exp pots, tithing pots, (all the pots in here making me feel kinda weird) speed pots, mounts, all that stuff in services were a convenience factor for game enjoyment and to help out some folks who didn't have as much time to keep up with other players (friends) who had much higher play times. But nothing you purchased gave you a DISTINCT advantage in your power in game. But wait your right, I could wait two years through research and catch up, never mind the fact I would be behind by 2 xpacks. Ascensions blew the door off of all that. Sorry if you left wing/right wing brain can't see the difference.

    Just sayin...
    DoomDrake likes this.
  19. ConcealFate Well-Known Member

    I don't get into end game content so I don't really worry about the P2W. Even after playing for years I still have hours of fun gaming at and under 90 or so. I say let those who want to pay big bucks do so just to top the parse....maybe it makes it less sad for them.
    Cloudrat likes this.
  20. Tanix Member


    Your response is confusing and does not attend to the points I made. We can not be both right and wrong.