Temple of Veeshan: Dreadscale's Maw feedback

Discussion in 'Zones and Populations' started by Clevemo, May 13, 2014.

  1. Katanallama Well-Known Member

    Ah sorry ^^,

    I'll watch it more intensely next time, I recall seeing the pop ups, but then again I keep that UI near my casting bar / hotbars for maximum visibility. Next time we do it I'll try to catch it not popping up.
  2. Snapshot Active Member

    BadRaider1 is frozen in a block of ice!
  3. Gninja Developer


    I'm not seeing anything that stands out as to why it would only show some of the time but the time the message is shown is really short. I can lengthen it if you like. I do not want to put a message in chat as I would like communication to be one of the elements of this encounter. Allowing triggers to be made when someone gets ported makes it much easier.
  4. Ebofu Active Member

    Only one block, generally the 2nd or 3rd, will give the announcement.

    You don't really need to be told. It's pretty easy figuring out when they are due and finding them is easier again. I'd much rather a long prose about how to move on Ice so I don't have to teach people every week.
  5. slippery Well-Known Member


    Pop up messages are ridiculously unreliable no matter what you do to them. They have a tendency of lagging on their own. Not to mention that when you give you people 15 seconds to kill an ice block and it's likely take 3-5 seconds just to communicate where it is you have a problem in design. It's going to take a person 1-2 seconds to realize they got ported and where too, and another 1-2 seconds to communicate where that is. Plus possible latency in communicating because this is the internet. Then you have to add things like movement time to get to the ice blocks and it just creates problems that get exacerbated by what this fight does to class balance.

    People need to be individually reliable and able to check themselves. That's why things like curses that forced communication always gave you the ability to make a trigger somehow or gave a long time to react to, because when you force communication instead of letting players react on their own it makes things take longer.
  6. Caith Developer

    Allowing everything to be triggered isn't communication, it's automation. While not the type of automation that would get one in trouble, it is most certainly not communication. Designing an encounter that requires raid members to actually communicate and react to that communication is not a "problem in design". Sometimes, you will need to rely on the other players participating in an encounter to be able to effectively communicate.
    Meirril and Gninja like this.
  7. Ebofu Active Member

    Slippery jumped on the whine train a long time ago and hasn't got off. If he doesn't like something it is inherently broken and should be removed from the game. It's only logical.

    Though in all seriousness, its pretty disappointing, the few sparks of intelligent thought from him is drowned out from the torrent complaints. The iceblock text is so far removed from fight breaking it borders on the irrelevant.
  8. Crychtonn Active Member

    When a message is suppose to show up every time and an event happens but only shows up some of the time is a pretty solid definition of that thing being broken.

    The debate on what type of message should be showing up is a secondary topic open for debate.
  9. Crychtonn Active Member

    You can't be surprised after years of making raid content that was made for ACT triggers to be used on to see complaints when you deviate from that. Especially when everything else in the zone is set up that way. Creating the need for non triggered communication was done much better on the end mob. Where the mages need to communicate which add they are killing and a healer solo healing needs to call for help healing their group if they get ported on the scout add.
  10. Snapshot Active Member


    The "problem in design" is 99% of raid mobs are made with act (or like programs) in mind. If for instance I got teleported in to an ice block and you only told me and wanted me to let the raid know, then fine, keep it out of the logs. You are actually showing everyone the text you are just forcing people to use the visual automation instead of the audible automation we are all used to.

    For the record I'm not in favor of third party programs to play a game, but saying that using a trigger to change an automatic warning in to a different automatic warning is making the game more automatic is an extremely silly idea.

    Red Text in this game is bad, it can be delayed, and apparently doesn't even show up all the time. If you don't want us to use act to tell us when something happens, give us a warning that actually works (the screens changing colors is one that is commonly used and works.)
    Le Clown likes this.
  11. Glassjaw Active Member

    It's easy enough for the ported player to call out in vent or whatever fashion of speak program you use to let the raid know. Getting that player to tell the raid which dang direction via compass they were ported into is a whole nother annoyance.
  12. Mogrim Well-Known Member

    Agreed. I mean, you can get ACT to call out the "Time Warp" message. However, if said third party program gave you the warning faster than would be possible using game-text and also gave the direction flawlessly, well that would be an exploit similar to say... the apply verb exploit.
    Le Clown likes this.
  13. slippery Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I mean, changing a visual cue into and audio cue, that's totally automation that removes communication. You got me.

    No, it's not. It's literally just changing the method in which you get the information from visual to audio. It lets you pay attention to other things like your hotbars without having to watch a completely unreliable audio message. The fact that you honestly believe changing a visual cue to an audio one is some sort of automation in how you react or play the game boggles my mind. It doesn't change anything at all about the encounter except that instead of having to rely on someone to call they are in a block (because regardless of what you think the text 100% doesn't show all the time, because I watch for it) you get a guaranteed notice (assuming that when you put it in chat it isn't broken like the pop up) that a block is up and you look for it and then someone calls the direction. It's changing useless communication into useful communication. Someone saying I'm ported isn't useful communication at all. Having a cue that there is actually an ice block and then the communication being just direction is useful.
  14. Daray Well-Known Member

    I actually agree in that this whole discussion about visual vs audio Irdul ice block cues is pretty irrelevant. Sure, it'd be easier for it to be loggable chat text, but it doesn't really add any complication in having people call "ported" and a direction (assuming people actually notice when they get ported, and can figure out the direction).

    Then again I can just picture how much more annoying a fight like Feshlak would be if Melting Soles didn't do loggable damage and you actually had to rely on random individuals to watch their det window.
  15. Bloodguts Well-Known Member

    I don't know if that's sarcastic or not, but that's pretty much the way we've done that fight every time: relying on people to look at their Det Windows to move, if we notice that not all 3 people haven't moved, then we know someone ****** up.

    As for Irdul, fight is fine. You can even track manually the time it takes for Icy Prisons to spawn so you know when they're coming, all you have to do is open your eyes and see where they are and run to them. It's not an issue.
  16. Darkon Well-Known Member

    That's exactly what we've always done..
  17. Tigerr Well-Known Member

    Don't the botters have the "Radar" tool?
  18. ElectricPotato Active Member

    Something something minimap something something?

    1. Use screenshot of map of existing zone, same layout, to get a base map. You may need help saving the file as a .dds file.
    2. Find zonerect for Maw. Haha! spacial coordinates for ToV lobby, Maw, Dominion, and the Guardian's door for dominion use the same spatial coordinate plane. Personally I've calculated the zonerect to be -2981, -55, 2880, 4430.
    3. enjoy maps.


    PS. Look more into mapping if you can't get enough zoom in fight areas to make the map useful. I got this sweet little zoom in for feshniaks room, I even patched together scaled overhead screenshots to get the floor textures(couldn't get all the feshniak out though :().
  19. Kuulei Well-Known Member

    Where is my Vulak head?! I was rather disappointed at no trophy:(
  20. Gninja Developer

    I will get one added in with expac. Sorry, it completely slipped my mind.