So I won't use the nasty N word. Beastlords are overpowered because even in crap gear, even when they don't bother to have strikethru or accuracy from reforging, even when they hit only 50% of the time, they STILL top the parse in a raid of average people. On top of that, they can heal, power heal, and everything else. It's a huge gimme class. I'm not saying they don't work for it. I mean the BL epic is the hardest epic in the game. Here's another "forgotten bit of programming by SOE" They told us: Oh, don't worry, we're going to redo all the epics so your epic weapons will ALL be as good as BL's. But then they just forgot about it and moved on to CoE instead. Thanks guys. What's actually happening is the rest of us are underpowered because SOE didn't deliver on yet another promise.
Epic's... SOE has to have SOMETHING to sell you in the next X-Pak... As to the other... I don't let BLs outparse my Summoner. Maybe I have to work harder or use better gear or whatever it takes, but I am not affraid of a little competition.
If all of the above were true, that BL would have to be either a phenomenal and ridiculously lucky player with a crap-ton of procs, or your "average" people need to learn their class. I'd like to see the parse you're talking about along with screen shots of all the crap gear please.
Might want to rethink your definition of 'average' if what you say is happening in your raids is true.
BLs have been the top T1 dps since they were introduced. Nothing has changed. I haven't played one, but I understand they are slightly more difficult to play than other scouts. More juggling of abilities. It's an unfortunate result of a class being designed around level 90 and not level 50. Honestly, because they are so versatile, I think they should be a T2 dps class at the same level as swashbucklers and brigands. Or bring the true T1 dps (wizard, warlock, assassin and ranger) up a notch (and give rangers some utility!) A well played beastlord of similar stats can and does outparse any other class with the same (+ self) buffs.
Pets triggering procs. If procs were normalized between player and pet or pets just didn't proc at all both beastlord and summoner DPS would land pretty where they are supposed to be. And no they wouldn't plummet to some unusually low tier of DPS. Right now pet classes are 'Tier 0' DPS because of pets triggering procs essentially doubling the amount of proc DPS pet classes get over all other classes. Procs that also have a 100% proc rate are also a problem in this sense. Pet classes take double advantage and classes that simply attack faster than others get more out of them.
The thing is.. They already are T2 DPS when they use their "utility" (spiritual stance). Much like fighters Recklessness vs tanking stances, only it's heal/buff instead of threat/meat-shield. The only utility they have under Feral stance are debuffs, and the odd Primal group buff (Which all benefit from), which every other DPS class has to an extent. That's not to say that Primal stance isn't a bit over-tuned compared to other T1 DPS, but they should be on par with other T1 DPS in that stance. Auto attack is still 50% of the damage.
What other T1 dps class can change stance to heal and buff while still being a T2 dps? I won't bother commenting on the rest, Neiloch did just fine on that.
Just so you know, my defence stance loses me HP and overall DPS but adds some minor defence skills that make no difference at all. So I go from T1 dps to T2 dps but for no benefit.
Now you're just changing the argument. First you're saying that BL are T1 DPS with all this utility, to which I point out that BL are in fact not T1 with all that utility but T2, and now you're pissed that BL have utility with T2 DPS? which is it? We don't have T1 DPS and utility, BL have T1 DPS OR T2 DPS and utility. Yes, BL have the ability to be versatile if needed, but the "Healing" stance does not replace a healer, and our buffs do not replace a bard or chanter. Oh and all that only works if the pet isn't dead from an AE in which case we're useless T3 DPS with nothing to bring to the table but auto-attack. If the grass is so much greener over here you're welcome to try it. I won't deny they are crazy DPS for leveling and group content, but in end-game and raiding they're much more balanced than you think.
You conveniently bypassed my entire point. BECAUSE you have the utility, you should be T2 dps. End of. You have the option of being T2 DPS with buffs or T1 DPS with no buffs. OTHER T1 classes do not get this option, they just bring dps (especially rangers). OTHER T2 dps do not get this option, they bring some utility and some dps. Your class has all the options and others do not. How is that fair? I never once said you can replace a healer or utility, they are pure and you're a hybrid, but you either bring more to the group/raid than a T2 dps in spiritual stance and more to a group/raid in feral stance than other T1 dps. That to me is OP.
Ok, so looking at it that way.. Why would anyone bring a BL on a group/raid if their pure DPS stance wasn't T1 (because they can't do anything useful but DPS in this stance) and why would you bring a BL over a bard/chanter/healer for spiritual stance with T2 DPS when those other classes can do all of those things better? Maybe the DPS needs to be toned down in spiritual to match that of Bards/Chanters? As you said, it's a hybrid class. I don't see you freaking out that Crusaders can hit T1 DPS in recklessness, have a crap ton of utility, and heavy armor? If BL were doubling or tripling T1 DPS on raids consistently with zero effort there would be a problem, but the fact that they can top the parse (with a ton of work, micro-managing their pet, and short-term self-buffs to maintain I might add) in their pure DPS stance it is fine.. if the numbers are slightly over-inflated then tweaking is needed, but they should still be T1 DPS in the DPS stance as that's all it does. They need to fill a role on a raid.. In DPS stance they fill the role of DPS.. In spiritual stance, they fill a gap when a healer, or buffer goes down but take a massive DPS hit to do so, then they are back to their DPS role. They can't cure, the heals are small, and the buffs are mostly already capped with gear so it's a stop-gap.
No one is saying as a spiritual stance BL that you would take the spot of a healer or utility. What you would be is on a par with other T2 dps that bring their limited utility along with them. Such as swashbucklers and brigands and summoners. They can't flick a switch and become a T1 dps so why should you? You have unique abilities that can be bought to a raid or group as well as decent dps. Or we could go the other route and you could be a pure dps feral BL with no utility and compete for a spot with the other T1 dps, who once again can't flick a switch and bring in some useful utility to keep a healer alive or something on certain fights. One or the other is fine. But being the top dps class in one stance and being a very acceptable T2 with unique abilities in another is OP. Crusaders in recklessness don't constantly hit T1 dps, only on certain AE fights, where actually swashbucklers do very well in to. But we're not talking about reckless, that's another issue I don't agree on as DPS classes can't go into tank mode. But also only trivial fights can a tank be in reckless anyway. Back to the point. BLs have far too much versatility versus any other class. That would be fine if they had a penalty for being that versatile. But they don't. When you can outparse a T1 dps who can't fill any other role, regardless of how "skillful" you are, and then be able to switch to a utility role and cover for another class, it makes you far more valuable to a group or raid than a class that can just do one thing that you do just as well. There has to be a tradeoff, otherwise every class would be able to do everything just as well as anyone else at the flick of a stance. You think the other classes are putting in zero effort to try and keep up with BL dps? I assure you it requires effort.
I forgot to answer your question. If you keep both stances I personally think BLs in feral stance should be below assassins, rangers and other T1 dps but close to them. Due to their versatility I believe they should have a minor penalty of not being top of the parse. With all the right buffs and setups then sure, they can top the parse, but not if another T1 dps class has the same setup. They should always be a bit higher as they can't do anything else.
hopefully the new updates will deal with some of these issues until then this is just beating a dead horse and don't nerf BL's that's dumb. they just need to fix abilities on the current dps classes and fix procs, they are out of control.
Oh yes the grass IS that much greener. Before I had a merc bc I didn't have AoD, a Raid geared BL and I used to duo TOFS at level 92. And I was wearing mostly Withered Lands quest gear at the time. He was basically soloing it with some dps from my scout which was AA setup for soloing, and we discovered, my scout could dispel the librarian if I tried it a few times. I don't even want to tell you how he got his epic, it was a horrendous slog, and at the time, people would LEAVE or go LD on you regularly if they realized the purpose of the group was to advance the BL epic because they didn't believe that SOE would follow up on their promise to buff everyone's epic to be in line with the BL... and lookie, they were right. So, to be constructive in my comments, SOE, it's time you make all our epics as good as those claws please.
The reason I spoke up about this is that I think newer players, people who came to the game during CoE may not know the history here, or people may have forgotten, that we were all supposed to get a major buff due to BL's powerful status. SOE is doing "class balancing" now? From what i read in the forum there, they're talking of weakening some classes..... NO, they should first bring everyone up to the BL standard, then balance it out. Like they said they would when BL was added.
I know most of you might not know about the mythical nerf to the bl weapons, do you? So bl got nerfed once in his life at least, that what i noticed ^^ (I also know, that most bls don´t have the mythical ^^)
