General gameplay, transparency and rng madness!

Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by Ryve, Feb 11, 2021.

  1. Flatline Well-Known Member

    I think i know how to do it ? and so do you, However. You're doing old content to be able to be viable in current content where CLEARLY its a choice from development that this limitation is there.

    Tell me you dont see this as an issue, not for us who been here since bleeping launch, or who got several of them leveled rotting in banks as they got replaced.

    But for Returners, for alts, for new people.. Tell me again how THIS is good design. Not saying it cant be done, but is that what we should expect?

    Also, thinking further than this, its the bigger picture of ALL those things that all accumulate for new people/alts etc to become viable.

    The fact people out right state on discord when people ask what should i play "Dont play dps, play healer and utility because the task to become viable is simply extreme"
  2. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

    I am frankly sick of running Solos in RoS trying to get green adorns. I finally picked up the RoS version of the Destruction rune yesterday. I'd much rather be running in heroic groups to get this stuff, or have more green adorns dropping in raid. We've seen ONE in raid thus far.

    I also am out of the raid coinage from BoL, which I'd need to buy my alts some stuff from Seru. If there aren't blue adorns (or other means) to get more Resolve in RoS, then at least put the old ones on the Status merchant or someone where we could buy them with current coinage, either a lot of Bazaar Crowns or else whatever the raid coinage is called (I can't look right now, because I crashed upon zoning for the Nth time today and I'm getting "You have a character in the world").

    But... not everybody reading this thread is gonna know how to get or level the Umbral Eye. And genuinely new people aren't going to have coinage for it, either, I suppose, though doing the BoL Landscaping weeklies would get it pretty quick. So I did want to mention that it's fairly easy to level. Except for any of my alt healers.

    I see two huge fails:

    (1) Placing unleveled BoL adorns in Tishan's Lockbox. They should be at level 10, or they should have created a special green adorn that has equivalent stats to a level 10 green adorn.

    (2) Forcing us to use Resolve as an artificial gating mechanism, but not providing new ways to obtain enough Resolve. Of course experienced raiders are going to have a huge advantage, because most of us have the darn things, or we can throw two groups together and go back and run old raids to get Celestial Rune of Embers etc.

    My alts need tons of Resolve, and since we can't trade the RoS raid mount, or green adorns, or... etc. it's a giant PITA to even get some of my alts even through the sig line in the first place (my Mystic is particularly handicapped, and we'll see how the Paladin does once I upgrade her gear some more). I am pretty sure everyone in my raid has the raid mount now, since it drops super frequently, we COULD be rolling on it for alts, if it were tradeable. We're not going to waste raid time waiting to zone in an alt.
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  3. Bhayar Well-Known Member

    We've seen a few green adorns dropping in raid. I haven't seen any in heroic zones. Pretty much the same loot drops in the same raids/heroics ad nauseum. There's about as much variety as you'd see...well, never mind the comparison, those of you living with this know what we're talking about.
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  4. Tunes Member

    Having to do old content to level adorns isn't great
  5. Bhayar Well-Known Member

    I concur. What's even worse is you get a starter chest with last xpac's green adorns, but you can't level them up in current content. Which is somewhat nonsensical given the rarity of green adorns currently dropping in RoS content. Old green adorns you haven't replaced because of rarity of new green adorns dropping don't level in current content. I'd be curious how many people are still wearing old green adorns in current xpac because of this situation.

    I sometimes wonder if decisions are made by holding up a cardboard circle with a spinner on it. The categories are: "Works", "What logic?", "What the eff were we thinking?" "No idea if this will work or not." Heck, maybe I shouldn't give anyone an idea, haha.
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  6. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

    I'd guess "just about everyone".
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  7. Bhayar Well-Known Member

    That was my hunch as well. Why you can't level an older green adorn in new content is baffling as hell. I could maybe see the opposite (new adorn in old content) for obvious reasons, but why you'd hand out an old adorn and not be able to level it baffles any concept of logic I can figure out--especially when it's easier to get balanzite crystals then it is to get new green adorns. And I'm not buying the argument "we're trying to make the stuff out of the new box to get people started." My response to that is simple: skip the damn adorn and just increase the stats on the armor you're giving people out of the starter box. How tough do you have to make it?
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  8. Torri Active Member

    What is funny is it apparently wasn't always this way. I finally began leveling my adventure from the 100 I left at before ToT came out as a change of pace. Working the PoP sig line. Today I finished up the PoI part of the timeline which took me from 107 to 110, and my Elementalist Ascension from 8 to 10. Somewhere in all the reward pop ups I received a green adornment, Plane Touched Spirit Stone, which will level from completing either PoP or CD solo weekly missions.

    The precedent is there.
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  9. Ryve Ryver'Fish


    Not only that, but if you looted any adorns through solos/heroics/raids in pop they came with an account unlock. Your alt could then purchase the adorn for currency/status (iirc the sig line completed too)....there was lots in place for account wide locks and the flexibility to change characters as necessary.
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  10. Beee Well-Known Member

    Raidmount need to be Heirloom

    Actual the drops of raidmounts directly move to trash because no main raider needs it anymore
  11. Arclite Well-Known Member

    and RNG is not once discussed in the podcast with the creative lead designer. Definitely nothing creative about RNG and how its implemented. Could not think they could ruin it more after BoL but yeah I was wrong.

    Perhaps the next podcast addresses this post?
  12. Arclite Well-Known Member

    Just thinking about RNG again.

    I mean who in their right mind think the following is fun:

    Heroic run

    Loot drop from named - RNG
    No-trade collectible RNG
    No-trade collectible actually spawning RNG
    Red or green adorn drop RNG
    Daily/weekly crate reward - RNG
    Currency you get from completing zone quests used to buy RNG crates

    Where on earth is the incentive or the fun for a player to look forward to something they have invested time and effort in?

    You had a great system with faction merchants and currency. Let players grind factions and then let them use their hard earned currency to buy the items they deserve. It really is not that hard.
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  13. Bhayar Well-Known Member

    I had to laugh at this statement this morning--not because it isn't true, but because it reminded me of the movie "The Accountant," where Anna says to Ben Affleck, "I went to (name of college) where fun goes to die." I have to say, I'm thinking there's a lot of correlation here. I think a lot has been unchanged either because to fix it would suggest "we were wrong," and given the current environment emanating from SD, that isn't going to happen. The other is that things can't be fixed because there's very few who actually are familiar enough with the fundamental game mechanics (attributes, CAs/Spells/, class mechanics, etc.) at the player level that they simply don't know where or how. When the only mechanism you apparently employ is the nerf bat, it reinforces the latter theory. Classes get changed, they're overpowered, the nerf bat swings. There's simply no balance. That requires someone who knows the class inside and out and secondly, how to tweak for changes. Can anyone honestly point to a change in the last 6 years that was a medium change that didn't nerf a class into extinction? Put a different way, you're either in a peddle car for tots or you're in a Maserati. There's no happy medium.

    RNG is failing and failing hard and has for years. Loot tables are a disaster. Honestly, if I see one more effing Awakened Abilities as a current xpac loot reward, that might send me over the edge. Clearly, it reinforces the point of this entire observation. When you have a "reward" for doing something in a current xpac that's available to "purchase for free" in the game because it became irrelevant 3 years ago, then the only conclusion one is left to draw is this: if you can't fix something this simple, then how in the world do you think you're capable of tackling the real issues?
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  14. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

    What I don't understand is why so many people don't recall that all loot drops, everywhere in game, forever, have been RNG. When they tried to do smart loot, people whined because they weren't getting stuff they could use for their alts. I'll say it again. the problem is NOT the RNG, it's the way the drop rates are weighted.

    On the NO-TRADE shinies (which I consider to be an utter abomination, shinies should NOT be LORE or NO-TRADE!), just make it so a NO-TRADE always drops in the final boss' loot chest. Or else get rid of the NO-TRADE tags and market forces would prevail.

    The drop rate for green adorns is just too low, period.

    As for the rest, they give you the ability to buy extra loot crates from heroics, giving you extra chances to get whatever it is. I think that's as far as they can go in that direction. They absolutely do not want everyone all completely equipped with BiS, because once that happens, why would you even log in to play? You done won EQ2!

    If they put, say, the Celestials from PQs/Heroics on the merchant for 100Mp (or whatever outlandish pricing), then people would whine louder. I offer as evidence the situation with Ergrott, the BiS blue lion mount. People bitterly complained that it was too rare in heritage chests, so DBG put them on a merchant at a fairly high price, which caused people to complain even louder that it would take years to get enough of the Jadeite Medallions. There's no way for DBG to win here, because given the evidence of what's been said around Ergrott, what the complainers really mean seems to be "I want that loot now without effort or cost".
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  15. Flatline Well-Known Member


    We also used to ride a horse and cart, eventually that changed. Just because something "always" been the way doesnt mean there isnt room to change. If you remember back those where the same days where ALL loot where tradeable. If that was still the case - and the loot tables wasnt as SLIM as they are.. maybe, but do you think they will even remotely CONSIDER making loot fully tradeable - and i do mean FULLY?

    I think that was how it was in PoP? No idea why they dropped that either, but see above


    And i ran out of quotes :) BUT the plat for celestials? i dont think anyone even asked for that yet WHAT was asked was .. make the coins heirloom for ethereals, and make the celestials purchasable for Event Coins to further engagement
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  16. Bhayar Well-Known Member

    We can call it tomato or tomatoe, but as far as RNG is concerned, there is no systemic difference from the player perspective between RNG and weighted loot tables. And I'll emphasize, once again, for about the 100th time, RNG isn't working effectively either when it's consistently the SAME players rolling the high numbers. Sure, you'll see the occasional high roll from others, but I'd be willing to bet you that if asked, any of us can say we group or raid with someone who's always rolling "the magic dice." Otherwise, on any given roll, over time, the rolls would balance out. But in this game, they do not, nor have they ever. Week after week, it's the same players consistently rolling high numbers or consistently getting more of this item or better loot by whatever is attached by RNG/Loot table. It's simply a fact--deal with it.

    Vegas could teach DPG something about random rolls, haha. If the players who are consistently rolling dice like they roll in this game every week went to Vegas, I'd give 'em a week-tops-before they're picked up by the local casino staff and invited for a special "one on one."

    And "smart loot" doesn't have jack to do with weighted loot tables. If you're a plate wearer, you want your rewards to be plate armor or a nice sword (something for your class to use.) Cloth armor or wands really don't work too well. Those items shouldn't be in the loot table with ANY chance for a plate wearer to get. SMART LOOT can be designed to work by smart people who know how to effectively manipulate tables, not lazy ones who can't or won't.
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  17. Misury New Member

    This post makes a lot of sense, but the post does not take into account $$$ comes first and unless the idea's increase the money DBG is making from EQ2 they are not applicable. Take a look the EG7 presentation. When you read through the entire EG7 presentation you realize where the important issues are for DBG and the owners. So maybe if someone has a idea to help them make more money and improve the game at same time.... We could get somewhere. I have come to accept this, we could all go elsewhere or enjoy what we can with what we have.

    Introduction to EG7

    Thanks,

    Mark
  18. Tanto Done, finished, gone.


    I was kinda thinking this. The RNG has always been a thing, but has it always been such a dominant part of everything we do? There must be a reason such a huge proportion of the players are suddenly utterly fed up with it in this xpac.

    As Arclite says above, everything is RNG this xpac and there's no respite from it. At least in BoL you could unlock armour for your alts. Perhaps even just that was enough, along with a better loot table (my god, I can't believe I'm looking back fondly at BoL on any level but here I am), was enough to make the RNG tolerable.

    No, that's not all BoL had in its favour. The "exploits" they "fixed" this xpac, like the armour unlocks/sharing and no-holds barred reforging, that made BoL more enjoyable and perhaps gave us enough padding to tolerate the RNG. I never got Prismatic Distraction for example, plus I never got a decent ring in raid with abmod. Our guild went at one point I would say maybe 2-3 weeks without a single piece of gear dropping that a main wanted. So the RNG did suck in BoL too, but it didn't feel like this.

    You know, I said near the end of BoL that if we get into the new xpac and we look back at BoL with anything but disdain, laughing at how terrible it was and "phew, at least this xpac isn't BoL", then the devs have utterly failed. I'm actually gobsmacked it's happened.
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  19. Bhayar Well-Known Member

    Mark, it's really quite simple. The more players you have with reasons to sub, the more money you make off them. Look at any major corporation and the fundamentals are the same. Keep your customers happy. Think Ford for example. That said, there are those companies who don't give a rat's patootie about selling to the masses--the want the people with money. Think Maserati. In both cases they serve a definitive product to their customers. And finally, the old business axiom, "When you serve your customers well, you'll be in business for a long time. When you stop serving customers and serve only yourself, it won't be long before you serve no one."
  20. Benito Ancient EQ2 Player: Lavastorm Server 2004.


    I was shocked to read that EQ2 made less than Planetside 2. I play both games but I figured Planetside 2 would be dead last in revenue as there is no need to pay for anything on PS2 (except if you want to quickly gather implants).

    Interestingly, a former EQ2/Vanguard dev (Moorgard) said Vanguard had to be sunset when crate revenue ran out. Though, during that time, Fortnite's Battle Pass (season pass) and DLC revenue models were unknown.

    I am now suggesting that EQ2 move their revenue model more towards limited edition (once-in-a-lifetime) cosmetics through a Battle Pass (or similar cosmetic-centric system). If this model is successful, they can phase out crates, spell upgrades, infusers, and other RMT transactions that cause controversy.