Can player groups be eliminated entirely?

Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by Deckerd Smeckerd, Dec 3, 2019.

  1. Deckerd Smeckerd Active Member

    If I run up to a creature that is fighting someone else and I shoot an arrow at it, I get on it's memory list. When that creature dies, it gives its experience out to the appropriate group. Whoever fought it first or did the most damage. Not sure how that works.

    What was the downside of giving rewards to everyone on the list? Couldn't the idea of being in a group just be eliminated? Isn't the memory list a temporary group? Isn't everything translatable into points? If I entrance a creature doesn't that prevent hit-point subtraction from its target? Or if I slow a creature? In the memory list, there is a character ID. But can't there also be a points field. If I damage it for 100hp, I get 100 points. If i heal someone on its list for a 100hp, i get 100 points. If I mez it for 5 seconds and it is rated at 20 dps, I get 100 points. Then when the creature dies it distributes xp according to the points totals. Same with currency and items. The goal is to rack up points. Everyone on the list gets quest updates.

    As for buffs, when i cast a buff can't it just go into a buff database? The buffs get updated by their own processors. I can't work this out completely off the top of my head but if it is a proximity buff, it does a range check from the player who owns the buff on every update and makes a new list of players. It compares the new list to the old list from the previous update. It makes the necessary adjustments to new players on the list and those that are no longer on the list. Then you can just make those updates happen in a time period that makes sense for the buff. It might be seconds or an hour or a day. If it is a targeted buff then it gets a player ID. When the buff is created or expires it makes the necessary adjustments to the player. These adjustments can just be a list of objects attached to the player ID that have a corresponding buff ID. So when you want to make that update to the player, you iterate through the list and find the buff ID. Delete it. Or Add it.

    So that leaves group buffs. I would probably just kiss them goodbye and just rely on AOE buffs instead. You can almost mimic long term group buffs except that when you cast a group buff they have to be in range. Then you set the update period to the expiration period. Or maybe it is an update period and a number of updates. Probably easier. So, for example, a 2 hour update period with 0 new updates. When the buff updates in 2 hours the processor accesses the character file for each player ID in the list and deletes the buff because it sees there are no new updates.
  2. MightyMeaghan Well-Known Member

    Eh, you can pitch that idea to a new project in development, that's rewriting a foundational element of the game here. Though you are overthinking the buffs out of group scenario. Buffs in EQ1 weren't limited to within a group structure. Everything just had a timer and it expired in it's own due course. No need to rewrite that system. Limitations of buffs to within a group in EQ2 were only put in place to prevent abuse.
  3. Deckerd Smeckerd Active Member

    It is very possible that these things can't be done to an existing game. Almost everything is a buff or debuff if you think about it though. Some have timers and some don't. Every thing starts at 0. You have a character. All stats are 0. You add a race you get buffs. You add a level, you get buffs. You add a class, you get buffs. You add armor, buffs. Weapons, buffs. Even hp increases and decreases can be thought of as buffs and debuffs. A dd spell is a debuff to hp with 1 update.

    You could literally create a character from 0 by making everything into a type of buff or debuff and then just adding it all together to arrive at all the stats. You just arrive at one master buff. Then anytime a buff gets added or removed from the list of buffs, you just have to recalculate the master buff and there is the character.

    Yet, an attribute is just a name and a number. You could just have a generic list of name and number pairs to represent attributes. So if you want to create a brand new attribute, you just create a new buff with a new name and number and insert it into the list.

    I am not a professional programmer so maybe all those string comparisons would be just too slow.

    All well, I have gone way beyond game play discussion by now.
  4. Deckerd Smeckerd Active Member

    I am basically just hitting rocks together.

    a bear might have these buffs (these don't need to be visible but just internal):

    Bear hide - armor values or resistances
    Bear mind - mental attributes
    Bear claws - duel weapons
    Bear teeth - weapon
    Bear eyes - adds visual range
    Bear ears - adds listening range

    Abilities might be these debuffs and buffs

    Lateral rake - hp attack
    Maul - hp attack
    Stand - gain 1 charge of Crush
    Roar - intimidate (could affect a courage stat on npcs)
    Crush - hp attack and stun

    Of course this example could be fleshed out more.
  5. Deckerd Smeckerd Active Member

    It could be like a card game. Those bear abilities could be designed to do a few things which would make the game design easier to develop and tailor for each type of encounter.

    Take the ability Crush from above. So it might contain the base type and amount of damage that the ability does. It might also contain counter cards, conditions, and questions. The conditions dictate when the ability is usable. The questions are programs that execute to check conditions. Let's say crush needs the bear to be standing and within a range. A programmed question executes to check those conditions. Or, maybe a better or alternative question is to ask, how to can i fulfil these conditions. It should return instructions to stand and advance towards the target.

    When the bear begins to do this, Then the counter cards are distributed to the target. They are timed options. The base options might include Dodge, Roar, Impale, etc. The options are only available if certain conditions are met. Dodge needs a certain mobility. It might involve an agility check. It could be ruled out if the target is suffering a mobility penalty such as a snare or root. If it is available, maybe when you mouse over a couple of nice looking blue 3d arrows show up indicating directions to dodge. You fling the card which way you want to go.

    Aside from counter cards, the players have their own deck of cards too which may or may not be available. The problematic thing about a card game system is player movement. I like being able to control my movement so dodging could be done with movement controls. But I guess an encounter could begin a card game where player movement was handled differently. Movement might be an available card. I can grab it and drop it on the floor. Would it be fun? Maybe. It would allow the encounter to be more cinematic perhaps. The combat could be fun. It would still be a skill decision game. It would be more about your character's attributes rather than your personal reflexes.
  6. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

    You are asking for a re-write of the entire game engine, which won't be happening in EQ2. If they do design a new game engine, that would be EQ3 or some such.

    This is a MMORPG, so groups are part of the experience.

    In a group, everyone gets XP for things the group kills. If random people both attack the same mob, one or the other will get the XP.

    You can prevent people from "stealing" your mob. EQ2 Button >> Options >> Group Settings. Check "Default Group Auto Lock" and "Default Solo Auto Lock".
  7. Deckerd Smeckerd Active Member


    You're right, of course. They might make a major change to an existing game if it would save a bunch of operating costs. Yes, most of my ideas are forward thinking to a new game. I am just shooting the breeze.