Do you notice how every TL, every special event, and on the F2P servers every spell above master, top-tier gear and now even HQ items are all locked behind a gold sub wall? Do you further notice how many extensive pay to win grinds are tacked onto the end game of the F2P live servers? This is all because free players don't pay anything to keep the lights on, and the devs have to eat and the server bills must be paid. News Flash: Free Realms ran its entire lifespan in the red, and as of its shutdown had never even recouped its original development money. Now look what's happening in our own game as I have already pointed out, connect the dots, and stop asking for a free game so ours doesn't get shuttered, too.
So you're making my point? I don't particularly care about the sub. However, as much as you would like to pin the failure of this server mostly on character wipes and short seasons, I can attest that a lot of my friends are staying away because of the p2w mechanic (even if it is an indirect one). DBG has not run a server absent cash shop mechanics. You are significantly over valuing the impact sub fees have on revenue at this time. This game has too small a population for it to matter. The money is being made with shop sales. Don't believe me? Do the math. Lets assume 500 unique subs for the new pvp server (and I'm being optimistic) That's $7,500 per month (and this assumes unique subs, and doesn't even account for pre-existing subs or those playing on other servers). You think that's keeping the server up? Duprey's idea was a way to attract more people to the server with the idea that it's the shop sales that matter most. As long as the incentives aren't p2w, it's got a chance to succeed. Even game wide, $15/mo = $180 annually. Throw on the top line expac, and your at $220. I have heard accounts all over the place if people spending $2,000 to $3,000 per year in the shop. As I said, I don't really care about the sub fee. What I care about is a populated server with a game design that is fun and free of p2w. I'm only making plausible guesses at the numbers, and I've never claimed my ideas are awesome or even good ones. However, at least I'm not burying my head in the sand and limiting those ideas to concepts that have already failed. Enjoy your dying server. If you really want to keep the lights on, hit the cash shop.
I've read through this entire thread and yes I would like a cookie for doing so. The thing is that there is zero time to work on crafting and I'm still upset about the potions. I have no hope for the server as most smart people have left . Why make a pvp server with ptw and yes those potions are an advantage because you are ahead of the game which means you can trail back and get gear as someone else showed the way to easily get to lvl 50. Maybe next time , forget the store or is that even feasible with these dev's? I left the server and un subbed to the game in general because this game is looking like all the rest, a complete and utter cash grab.I'm sorry, I just can't do it. I realize my hard earned money and time is not worthy of this game. Maybe if the devs would stop being so trashy and lukewarm towards the idea of end game in a way where everyone can benefit...but that would never happen. The fact that this team is dishing out cash grabs such as TLE;s says so much and putting those damn potions in a pvp server. I still think that their idea of PvP is far beyond what we all know and see and live out in games. I wonder if the dev's even think about their players at all....?? On a positive note, I met a new found friend. on that pvp server.I was taking down 3 guys at once and this person came over to me and asked how I was doing. I did have fun for a minute. But I think the server crashed and died on day one. Also I dont think it s out of the question to bring pvp gear back in the game aka Havoc marks. maybe next season let folks get them, and someone said don't , but here is the deal with pvp...you dont bring it halfass way and that is exactly what these devs have done, however I understand they are outnumered in the studio. I get it. but people want something to work for not just a tag on their name. or the best in leaderboards. I think that that this pvp server could have been handled better but at the same time I do give props to the devs with little hand they have to make it happen. I think at the end of the day, I am not happy with it but at the same time I am for making it happen. I'm just not gonna be doing it here.
Uh, tl;dr... I really believe the best equipment should just come from raid/quest/named rare loot. That way we're not cutting out the entire root of the game -- exploration/journeying aspect that provide ample chances to initiate PvP. PvP equipment rewards, aside from titles, would essentially strangulate the core of the game itself, which is always a ridiculous notion. Might as well play battlegrounds. Personally, my reward is just winning. Dunno 'bout y'all. But yeah, you need the root of the tree just as much as you need the leaves. Giving people reasons to just give up on questing and hunting will lead to more server attrition. I saw someone suggest PvP writs to "encourage" people to PvP... I think that's counter-productive. If you need to encourage people to PvP, then the server has rule-sets and limitations that are already implemented that are probably flawed. PvP specific gear is the thing that really leads to my ultimate boredom and abandonment of many past incarnations. How can you PvP against people who already have all of the absolute highest tier PvP gear through inane levels of carnage? In comparison to just forming a group and clearing a zone and benefiting from those drops to use for PvP? Or like in the old days crafting at least enough T3 to be able to stand a chance, then accumulate from there through actually playing the game... lol. Reiterating myself: if we wanted BGs where we ignored all other aspects of the game, I think we'd have asked for it. BUT, the absolute greatest sin is this... I don't know if the choice to only allow one character was a matter of data space for DBG or some other seriously unfortunate idea, but it does make it much harder to hold interest. I don't want to PvP as the same class every single day, so sue me. It feels really strangulating, flat out. At least let us make as many characters as we want. Changing that alone would greatly bolster population and bring people back to All Access subscriptions. Is that not the whole purpose? Anyway, what I'm really trying to say is PvP isn't a bad idea. It can bring back so many people who are hyped for the good ol' days. You just need to do it right and listen to those who've been through all of the lousy renditions of what was originally so awesome. I've been here since EQ1 Rallos Zek and I've seen pretty much all of it, so please, I'm begging you, let Nagafen have a real chance. Fix this 1 character per server nonsense, at the very least, by next season. My less popular and even more opinionated sentiments: Let people keep what they've earned with the new expansion rollouts. I don't care who complains about being on uneven footing. That's what zone level restrictions are for. It's a month long, ffs. And to put it simply, that's always been the reality of EQ2 PvP -- People are always on uneven footing! One person may have an awesome item, or they might simply counter your class, have a level or two up on you, or God forbid, they have a group. That's brings flavor, vitality and dimension to it. It requires more effort and strategy. It's the spice of life, babe. EQ2 really does not need to be made any easier. The crowd who couldn't deal with the twinked out level 14 kids camping DLW really don't deserve to be on the server at all. You're listening to the complaints of bluebies, trying to buy their favor, when you should just be trying to buy the favor of the people who originally played Nagafen and appreciated it in the first place. We all experienced it, we all got through it -- and had some triumphs and frustrations along the way. Big deal. It could be sooo good if you just stop with all of these oblique strategies to cater to whatever fever dream induced demographic you guys are trying to sell to.
DEVS: Whats the point of taking away disco xp at this point though? Everyone who wanted to be 60 found L&L exploits to do so from 50, and not having disco is driving away anyone else coming to the server at this point, helping raids reconfigure due to population decreases due to your poor updates and gear dropping that is either raid gear worse than treasured 50 gear, and see no point in raiding. What makes you money? Xp pots - allow the disco, allow the pots to continue to drive revenue, and let people play what they want. GW2 has pvp handled and looks like a better EQ2.. dont snap at your community base because we 'found exploits' .. many have played this game as long as some of your devs have been alive, they are exploits, they are part of the game, we are smart players, who are going to advance, there is no AA so no one wants to play any tier other than max. Anyone on forums saying otherwise is a bluebie and as you can see from my account I have played every pvp server you've introduced. We are well connected - on discord - and available to talk (as some of you have tried, thank you). Bring back disco, leave it alone, drive xp pots for revenue, fix your server next season how its 'intended', sit back and let us play.. Encourage the players on kaladim to come back by offering them a coin to lvl them to 50 and disco the rest, as mentioned treasured gear is better than raid, and no balancing is mostly fine.. DISCO XP!!!!!! Bastion
Sever did not crash and die on day 1 - but most of the blue players as yourself have quit by now yes. Naggy is ruthless, you get ganked, killed, etc... the server is not dead - it's not robust like Kaladim simply cus PVP here is 'hardcore'. God I wish you all played Rallos where u lost gear and was open level pvp .. this is as green as it gets.. I think more frustrating are you all only know how to PVE, so you get upset when a scout drops into stealth and say hes hacking.. lol. Get a good guild, stop being so attached to your record or pvp fame, you saying someone who can go back and get gear below their level and xp pots arent fair.. its not fair I have to work all day and only get to compete for 2 hours a night while some of you play 20 hours a day.. I see pots as a way to let the more mature crowd stay in the same ionosphere as those with no social or work lives.. thanks devs. KANDOR DISCO XP PATCH IT UP TODAY PLZ
Keep in mind this is a 'season' server. I'm reading between the lines, and maybe I'm wrong, but I think the intent is to make one, learn from it, then make the next season. There are lots of things wrong with this one, they're not making drastic changes during the current season. I know that sucks for those invested in it, but rather than move the mileposts during the season, they'll incorporate feedback into the next season build. Thank you for your beta participation
This is the beta... for Kaladim. Apparently one of the guilds managed to persist and clear some of the raid content today, and a huge chunk of it is level 61+ KoS only. Looks like DoF will be **** for Kaladim too.
Yeah this is probably the final straw for a lot of us. We've come back time and time again and stayed loyal but this is another level of incompetence and neglect. They will never be able to do pvp ever again unless they decided to bring back BG's. RIP Nagafen.
saw this coming before it even started. The people who were wanting PvP soooo bad. Now they are nitpicking every stat, piece of gear, other player, guilds and the DB crew. This after racing like madmen to reach max level as soon as humanly possible to start ganking. Did any non-pvper reading this see any type of different outcome at all? And from all the posts on forums and discord there are very few people who are even remotely thankful that they have been given an opportunity to PvP again. Honestly, why not just play the server for the 3 months that it lasts, make suggestions on how to improve and wait for the next one to start. It doesn't even last long enough to be mad about anything. Instead of just abandoning the server, which by the way hurts no one but you, play it out till the end and see if anything is new next time around. Be positive.
This server has less than 100 people online most of the time. That won't stop bluebies from telling us that everything is okay, though. They had a beta. There's no excuse for things to be this broken. It's been several weeks since a change was made on this server. No, today's itemization patch doesn't count because those changes apply to Kaladim. I guarantee that if the broken itemization was limited to Nagafen, nothing would have ever changed. This server is a Deathtoll speedrun. They break everything, then go completely silent for over a month, then everyone quits and they close the server due to a lack of interest.
Stay in your lane white knight. They opened up the pvp server incomplete and it has been a hot mess on their end.
They did a run through of the Discord today and banned most people who post in the PVP subforum. I'm well over it honestly. I spent a bit of time providing feedback, mostly on PVE to help Kaladim. Not going to waste my time now. Given that one of my alt accounts was banned from here by the former community manager for just referring to Onra by name a couple of years ago, I shouldn't have expected differently.
This server was a cash grab from the very start. Is anyone really surprised at the quality? I suspect they've already thrown in the towel and moved on to this fall's content development. People are kidding themselves if they expect any further substantive effort to be put into Nagafen.
I would say that the vanilla release was a success aside from proc gear. Balance was intact aside from CC in certain cases. Now that DoF launched two weeks back, it has been pretty terrible. Mobs are tuned for blue stats (the content is still doable, bit rough for a 1 month expansion though, for Kaladim it would be too stupid easy), BiS gear is dropping from heroics, raidgear is mostly equippable at a level higher than the current cap and still many items have a KoS tag. On top of that, CC gear hasn't been tuned down, still. It isn't a lot of work to fix all this, or just check whether the content is intact and then fix it before it goes live. Nagafen feels like a bunch of very talented EQ2 players (also bad ones ofc) stuck on a tiny island, no SOS help even though our cries for help started weeks ago. Could we get a word from a developer whether we should just stop playing Nagafen as you do not seem to intend to fix your stuff?
If you ignore the fact that pvp mit in vanilla made any melee class useless (that's half of all classes) Then yes, vanilla wasn't as bad as DoF.
Do you mean the first week when people were max level without gear and full apprentice abilities? At mid-late vanilla rangers could kill squishy targets within 10-15 seconds. Kill-time was slightly too high, but not for melee classes specifically.
I too have read this entire forum, and No I don't want a cookie.. its already here. In the form of all the tears and moaning , so fun ! Daybreak just set the stage , supplied the set dressings and rule set. but it took all of you to make the pvp server the paid to win hell it became . And while you blame daybreak , you know who is the real culprit .. its you .. all of you, who rushed to grab that credit card to buy potions of advancement , the first one that risked losing the pot to see if it would stack, possibly taking the loss in finding out in what order to click it to make it work.. that person risked losing money on it ..and did it anyway. - and what really sticks in your craw is knowing, you did it voluntarily! in fact in the moment you were doing it, if someone had tried to stop you , they would have had a fight on their hands . - And now that its everything you all have made of it.. it's Daybreaks fault ... 'cause daybreak Made you Do It !! - and now you even more angry that daybreak cant fix it.. because, wait for it ... last I checked daybreak cant re-program people to play it the way they(db) intended that it be played . - you brought it to its lowest (offering to trade items , grouping just to find someone , so you can drop group to kill them), meanest level .. and are resentful that the majority of your victims .. leave. hilarious.. - all of you that are left made the new naggy seasonal server everything it is now .. Enjoy !!
