What is the incentive for returning players?

After my repeated pleas on discord fell on deaf ears, I thought may be I can garner some interest by the player base, and "hopefully" catch a Dev on the issue.

Saying that KA was all about grinding is an understatement. Now, before anybody says that mmorpg's or eq2 has always been about grinding, let me remark on this first before I move on to the crux of this post. Yes, grinding is and will always be the mainstay of any mmorpg. However, there needs to be a fence around this concept otherwise meaningful grinding becomes a meaningless chore which you need to do in order to stay relevant. KA is a prime example of the latter. The derisory variety of content, intense repetition of doing daily/weekly solo/heroic quests and the fact the a lot of players go back to older content not to only grind for xp but to break free from the monotonous rut is surely not intended, if it was, then your game has grossly failed in this aspect.

Now to the main point, the incentive to players returning the game right now is just non-existent.

Lets breakdown what a returning player has to do in order to catch up right now. Please don't say that they can catch up with baubles included in the pre-order of PoP. I mean if that the official response of the game regarding this then I am lost for words:

So the things a returning player has to do. Assuming they are max level and are not new to the game itself.

1. Epic quest - All the pre-requisites if they have not done it.
2. PQ for Ascension spell upgrades
3. Ascension of all 4 classes or a few if they left mid expansion.
4. PG for adornments.

So if you say that Epic and PG adornments are not relevant in the next expansion then that leaves PQ for spell upgrades and grinding the ascension classes. Now lets see what options do players have now to achieve that:

1. Daily/weekly solo quests
2. Group zones/ PQs
3. Scroll 24 hr limit

End of ethereal run has deflated grouping for zones and PG is a ghost town. PQs have a few players but not to the same level as they once were. Technically, the bulk of xp grinding is repetitive solo zones and associated quests.

Granted all this is to be expected at the tail-end of an expansion but I ask, why hasn't there been any moves to address these issues right now?

The catch up panda quests lacks any meaningful rapid progression.

With about a month remaining until the new expansion, the following should be in game right now!

1. Boost to ascension class - at least 1 full class given - not 0.5 and remove 24 hour scroll limit.
2. x3 coins because if PG adornments are to remain relevant then help people grind the solo PG zones.
3. Increase xp from solo zones so you don't have to do old ToT content to get more xp.
4. Give stat boost to players who have just got the panda quest gear to make solo content quicker to do.

This and other boosts need to be in game straight after the PoP game stream on the 18th as a Thank you to players who had to put up with KA and to returning players so they can buy your next expansion.

This close to a new expansion, DBG has little incentive to care about the current expansion.

At this stage, if you want to "catch up", your best bet is to hit max level, get all the AA/Tithe you can, run your epic 2.0 line, then reassess the situation at the launch of PoP for the best path to go forward.

Any attempt to get "caught up" for current content is next to redundant, and with the level cap raise next expansion, a whole new set of gear and spells will replace the current batch.

Expansion 13 was unlucky for some if not most. Moving on to expansion 14 the only way you'll entice old players back is with a clean slate, or less harsh penalties for pre-reqs for epic 2.0 etc.

KA killed the alt for sure and people like to alt, KA was for the hardcore those who could pump hours into the game.

One of the reasons the old expansions were such a success in many ways was due to their simplicity you could log in, grab a group kill and loot and it was fun.

Now there's just so many elements to the game that have naturally occurred due to development that i think the DEV team needs to step back and focus on fun and groups.

IF they want to keep items like burning keys in zones and key runs and PG don't make them best in slot items for a random RNG but make them useful items that some players might strive to gain so decent adorns or perhaps adorns with very unique effects.

Keep the best in slot items in instances and raids that way people will want to do them.

They need to get people grouping again, and make the gear viable, so many went back to TLE because they could group.

If the zones are to reward currency , then at least give NPC's with loot that can upgrade and people actually want to get, not stuff that has a ridiculous amount of SP points to get but is very limited. Gear that is upgradable with tiers.

Raiders can have their gear as well keep them happy increase stats etc but at least make some unique items for them and again some incentive.

HQ's need to improve with items that are meaningful.

Alts need to be viable, not some forgotten memory of a toon that has so many pre-reqs to do he/she is shelved never to be used again. Infact share the pre-req's so if you've done it on one toon then all share?!

Crafting for those who want to craft, not some dictatorship you will craft or ELSE! Again unique items, make it fun.

Quests or groups that require people to help each other it use to happen why not now? One problem with the EPIC 2.0 was often you have 5 people running a zone they didn't need for one person who did, it really should be the other way around the need for the majority needs to outweigh the minority.

I enjoyed the shadow odyssey perhaps go back to those types of expansions for some ideas. I think we seriously needed a fun x 2 in KA but it never happened.

KA is the worst expansion i've played since 2005, however it had to much to offer but sometimes keeping it simple is the way forward.

What a great post! I have not played on live for years, and am now returning because PoP was one of my most memorableexpansions in EQ1. I know I am not alone in saying that I believe a LOT of people are going to be returning after at least 1 year + of time away from EQ2.

This means that you are going to have a large player base that starts playing around the same time the expansion launches. How many of these people are going to be turned away once they grind up through 110 levels, and realize they are still 3-6 months of SOLO grinding behind?

I get that you want to preserve the content that was created and give players something to chew on, but we're coming back for PoP. We're coming back to play with people, which is why pretty much everyone plays MMORPG's. Don't put some rediculious solo grinding curve in front of us so that we cannot even participate. If this is the case, than I am very sorry to say it, but I will not be playing.

I cannot agree enough with this statement.

I came back to EQ2 with my group a few months ago. We took a long look at the live servers, researched the current expansion (KA) and promptly went to play on the new TLE server.

We play to be competitive, we play to be with other people, we play to enjoy the games group mechanics, not to solo through hundreds of hours of repetitive content.

Please, give us a reset. Clear the slate at level 110, put us all on even footing and simplify the systems so that we don't have to go through 10+ online guides just to figure out what the heck is going on and what random zone we need to go to in order to progress our characters progression.

While this might lure in some new players, it would be likely to lose far more existing players.

I could have made another post about content being fun but that is an entirely another topic.

I just do not understand the logic behind the current trend in the game. I am not sure who the content is aimed at.

Lets face it, EQ2 is not attracting new players who will be blown away with low level content and then remain in the game....may be a few but not a lot for the corporate heads to turn and take notice.

The only way someone is going to come to this game is as follows:

1. Browsing the free to play mmo section on steam - Just like most of us try new games when we are bored.
2. Happen to land on eq2 website and/or promotional emails/tweet - Very rare.
3. EQ1 players, EQ2 players who quit at some point and want to come back - Majority of current player base.

When the remaining player base time and again vent out their frustration, rightfully so on many occasions, then why is no one taking stock of the situation? I know dev's hands are tied due to corporate directives but we are suggesting ways to improve the game...for free. What we are asking is really not a lot.

This game did a lot of things right at one point, we just want some of that back.

The following point, i have no doubt, will resonate with a lot of the players.

How often have people left this game for a while only to pick it up again right at the end of expansion and by sheer determination, effort and fun grinding have gotten back into tier of content they enjoyed, be it group or raid content?

This expansion has made that "fun return" nigh on impossible and let me be clear, I am not talking about watering down the game the so everyone is rocking the best loot with least amount of work. This is already have been done! (burnt key, duck portal/ ethereal items).

Right now the situation is that you can brute force your way to do your epic and then come to a grinding halt when you are caught up with ascension scrolls for the day. I mean you have time, you are willing to put in the effort but the game is not letting me to do that. Literally there is no motivation for any returning player as of right now to be online.

Lastly, that panda quest merchant - That should have been at the beginning of the expansion, so people who left before or during ToT wouldn't have gotten a slap to the face when they had to meet resolve checks and insurmountable disparity of tithe potency and out of control gear stats just when they had started on the KA grind.

So you would prefer the game to continue to slowly die? Because that's exactly what happens when you bar new players out from current content because of ridiculous grinds that they are forced to do solo because no one does them anymore.

It's always been part of MMO's when a new level cap is introduced, there is either a clean slate introduced, or a massive catch-up mechanic in which new players can get to current content within a few weeks.

I get that you put in a lot of work. I get that by putting in catch-up mechanics or clean slates it's basically like the game saying, "thanks for spending all that time on your character, now its all wasted!" but that's the reality of MMO's that want to stay alive, they increase level caps, introduce new gear and new mechanics so that waves of new/returning players can jump into the fun part of the game, which is playing with people, not soloing with a merc for hundreds of hours.

I think you will be surprised at how many people are going to resub for PoP. Many of those people may not have played EQ2 in years ... heck maybe even a decade in some cases! I entirely agree with you that KA has made any hopes of a returning player nearly impossible. Once they realize just how far behind they are, and that no one is doing that content anymore, which means they are doomed to months of solo grinding and daily quests before they can ever hope to group with someone ...

I am in this boat, as are my friends that recently returned. If there is not a significant catch-up mechanic with the release of PoP, we will likely not be playing, and that is sad because we're all REALLY looking forward to seeing this expansion because of how attached we were to PoP in EQ1 (as are, i expect, many other former EQ2 players).

My hope is as follows:

Ascension max level will be increased to 15 or something, with a content wall. Getting to Ascension level 10 will be doable within a week at level 110.

MC gear will make all former content raid gear completely obsolete. This will put everyone on even footing, then we can move ahead with the vertical gear grind they'll have in place for PoP.

The epic 2.0 quest will no longer require the Epic 1.0 (or at least accept the epic repercussions version) and the 2.0 quest will be streamlined to allow MC geared level 110's to solo it.

These three things will put returning players where the content is at. It will boost the live game significantly. There will be more guilds forming and raid competition will be at an all time high.

I expect we'll have to regear. That is normal for expacs, especially ones with lvl increases.
A 'complete reset and blank slate' is something else entirely. It would mean removing epic 2.0 (weapons, abilities, etc), all tithe points, all ascension lvls, etc...

See my last post directly above yours. I believe our thinking is along the same lines. Sorry for any confusion.

My only wish is to be able to group with people in PoP zones and enjoy the progression with the rest of the community, and not be stuck behind a 3 month grind right out of the gate.

I appreciate and agree with many of the concerns addressed in this thread. However, I just can't seem to get Kander's statement of "if you don't like it, don't play" out of my mind. I think we are at the point where we get what we get regardless of our feedback. I hope the best for any returning players and maybe they will pleasantly surprise every one during the live stream with recognition of some way to quickly catch up returning players, but I am not holding my breath. Who knows, maybe they will use the opportunity to sell a premium collectors edition with a boosted character ready to jump right in. I could see them doing that as it would make them more $$$.

Unfortunately a lot of game companies have now taken this route. The recent loot crate in single player games debacle and the ever growing micro-transactions have made the corporate stooges more touchy than ever before.

Constructive criticism is now a thing of the past. One can hope that some positives can come out of threads like these.

I suppose a lot of us here have put in time and money in to this game and are saddened that so many game changing additions are made without any plausible explanation. Moreover, when main Devs come out and make statements like this then one of three things happen:

1. You accept it and continue to play
2. You don't accept it and stop playing
3. You don't accept it, you continue to play with hope and find any and every opportunity to speak your mind.

I am the 3rd category.

I vote for both fun and some proper carefully considered itemisation where raid gear doesn't get massively outgraded by heroic!

Really this KA expac has been not the best for fun. It's been both a tiny expansion and full of soul deadening grinds which I've come to loathe, though

PoP is a great chance for the Devs to renew everything and make the game fun and challenging again. I definitely want some serious alt/newbie/returning player love as it's swung way too far against players in those categories this expansion,

Lets hope they pull it off

I am hovering some where between 2 and 3 right now.

You realize that a lot of the players that have left, left because of KA. A lot of us that stayed through KA also would not be opposed to a reset of the way things are.

It's gotten stupid. Too many different systems. Too many different grinds. All of them you have to do at least to some extent to 'keep up'.

I gave up on the keeping up part. Now I'm in the position of hoping I can actually even play in the next expansion since I decided I didn't have the RL time to devote to the pure grind that was core to KA.

The fact that one of the long time devs actually said "If you don't like it, don't play" and has numerous times responded in a manner that could at the very least be considered impolite to legitimate grievances from the community, says a whole lot about where the game is right now. And the fact that there are people who happily toss out the OMG EULA violation card when people post on the forums (where we are supposed to post about such things) says a bit more.

I've been with the game since the beginning (heck and eq1 before it and Vanguard for it's full life) . The devs are currently channeling WAY to much Brad currently. I don't relish the thought of being hammered with "the vision tm" for the rest of Eq2's life.

I agree, you should be banned from the forums.

All and all, it's a complicated mess and there are just too many stats to try to balance. Last expansion, Stats X, Y, and Z mattered the most. This expansion, it's A, B, and C, but keep an eye on D!

Next expansion will do away with F, but now we're coming up with G and H, but keep an eye on D still!

KISS method = keep it simple, stupid. (Like you know back at launch).