Lets do it.. then after we can open the OP ranger thread and OP assassin thread followed by warlock and wizard.. and place everyone in the exact same spot except less!
Lets do it ill bring a fan club to gang up on them , I have dabbled in those classes that must make me an expert and give me a pass to quote ppl and gob off.
Why is it that subpar players call for nerfs because they. well, suck at the class they are playing? Riddle me this, Batman.
lol far from it arieva. i can't say i blame you for not remembering me, my first raid with you was such a circus i didn't bother and ended up with rawr. you are pretty self centered to think anything more than an easy jab at you is stalking, if anything i was pointing out how sykle doesn't actually seem to mind dealing with people like you and is putting himself in the situation. 1 button faceroll? that's hilarious
There is no Sykle. He died. On another note, I'm curious as to how much longer this thread can possibly go on.
I see you got the hint that he was referring to you. Yes, you, the guy fumbling all over the forums and crying for retribution nerfs because you are unable to accept the reasoning behind why your class was rebalanced. Please try to adhere to forum conduct policies. We prefer threads to stay on track, civil, and productive.
I thought id squeeze in a productive, civil and on track post before it inevitably gets locked.. So i spend the better part of my evening to actually get some numbers to see how our dumbfires compare to some of our other spells. Epic training dummy (immortal) 100% double cast no hammer proc class cloak normal dps AA spec single target total damage per single cast Dumbfires, our class defining ability set: Undead Horde 1 sec cast/ 12 sec duration/ 300 sec reuse/ avg 340m damage Blighted Horde 1 sec cast/ 12 sec duration/ 30 sec reuse/ avg 195m damage Awaken Grave 1 sec cast/ 6 sec duration/ 30 sec reuse/ avg 55m damage So these were our burst damage tools, and with their 30 sec or more reuse lined up perfectly with temps so we usually expect the most out of them Compared to some of our normal spells: Soulrot 1 sec cast/ 1.5 sec duration/ 1.5 sec reuse/ avg 95m damage Lifetap 1 sec cast/ instant damage/ 4.5 sec reuse/ avg 90m damage Blood Coil 0.5 sec cast/ 26 sec duration/ 4 sec reuse/ avg 170m damage Pandemic 1.5 sec cast/ 7 sec duration/ 4.5 sec reuse/ avg 85m damage Vampire Bats 1 sec cast/ 24 sec duration/ 6 sec reuse/ avg 120m damage Compared to some AA spells: Rot Flesh 0.25 sec cast/ 6 sec duration/ avg 450m damage Etox 1 sec cast/ 19 sec duration/ avg 250m damage -I ignored all legendary+ crit hits from everything except the two horde's since each of their many hits has seperate chance to crit harder so that's in their favor -Dumbfires benefitted from the prestige primary attribute to cb and pot conversions so that is also in their favor -Blighted horde's damage can be halved without class cloak (although i expect the damage to be less then half) After looking at these numbers i think the nerf is even worse then i thought, the fact that i kept my usual spell priorities combining temps with dumbfires made it less apparent. Im not sure how this would look on conjurers. U may call it whining but i think it is wrong that our class defining spells with high reuse do the same or less damage then Soulrot per cast, and it is outright ridiculous that undead horde with 5 minute reuse does only 3.5 times the damage of soulrot. So my very expensive class cloak doesn't really seem worth wearing anymore. And why this nerf? because of how new itemization removed the need to wait for debuffs, group wide click efforts or TW and last but not least the introduction of pre click charms (100% pot + 25 fervor) which is forcing dps classes to throw out everything at the start of ever shorter fights, which is no problem for summoners, but near impossible for most other dps because of their class mechanics and lag.. So yeah, this nerf has been so severe that spell priorities have to change completely, why would a necro without class cloak even consider casting blighted horde instead of soulrot, considering it hardly procs anything and only generates extra lag during raids?.. even vampire bats do more damage "Now" we are broken.. But i'll be honest, i myself would not be able to find an easier way to balance things out then to do what they did but that doesn't make it right. EZ
We can go back and forth on this all day long, but the fact remains, dumbfires were broken before the fix. I'm not sure if most summoners know how their class spells work, but Undead Horde is an encounter spell. I'd imagine if I cast a single Apocalypse without void on a single epic training dummy, I'd be upset at how low the damage was on it for the recast value too. Apocalypse would be one of my class defining spells. I'm wondering if during raid Soulrot is doing much more damage than your dumbfires, because I'd imagine that it isn't. Considering that every time I break down a necro's parse their dumbfires are on there 10 different ways and it all adds up to easily being more damage than anything else they cast. (I'd imagine that you know that Undead Horde is on there 6 different ways when you break down a parse, and I'd imagine that you added it up to get your number.... I'm hoping). The other fact remains, if your class is AT or NEAR the top of the parse in any situation, raid or group, why are you saying the class is broken? Because last month you were at the top without trying, and now you actually have to try? I feel the adjustment previously was way out of sorts, we had a necro go from 150 million single target to 375+ Million in a matter of 1 patch. Now he's down to 275-300 Million after the "fix". I don't think that's all that bad, he still gained 125 million from previous parses before the change ever happened. That's why I laugh when I hear summoners complain that they're doing less than before the change. This threads needs to just die already.
when the "fix " happened we were at 4-5k potency now we have 11k+ potency..get someone who understands math to explain it to you. If you have the summoner at the same potency he had on the day of the change he will be doing less than what he was doing..why is that simple thing so hard for you to understand
Stat levels then and now are irrelevant. Summoners hang just fine with their T1 peers. I am of course assuming equal gear and player skill levels here. There could very well be a lot of derpy people who jumped on FOTM summoners and are now embarrassing themselves because they never really learned the nuances of the class. Not saying that DID happen here, just saying it wouldn't be the first time...
Glad you can assume what another player's stats were and are based on your own personal experiences. Get someone who understands "Anecdotal Evidence" to explain it to you. Right after the dumbfire change, he actually already had a rising tide charm and sent me a screen shot of his potency hitting 20k for the first time. (Because I was jealous and did not have one yet). This was within a week of the change, so I'm not sure how he got there... oh yeah, unless his potency was already above 7-8k when it happened. (By the way, this is anecdotal evidence). Please keep your assumptions to yourself. Also, who is this "We" you speak of? Looking at your character signature, you have 7833% potency, not 11k+. As Entropy stated, summoners are doing just fine on the food chain of T1 DPSers, which is why my comment of "This thread needs to die" was said. This argument is a moot point. Summoners are not in a bad place. The sky is not falling. Thank you for your extremely condescending comment though, much appreciated.
(03:03) The Forge Golem: 3307483573 Hike-Fatal Followup-2,373,049,485 Hike | 479535197 assassin with both ethereals and hammer. Inuf | 439990995 conjuror with hammer Ratit | 415481081 conjuror without hammer Cloud | 400616329 a truly exceptional illusionist with RTT items and a cloak Devor | 355873590 necromancer without hammer Anglo | 190288442 undergeared ranger Suade | 170165694 illusionist with cloak Skitt | 121804760 brigand Fille | 100784779 dirge (01:53) Captain Graybeard: 3068856736 Hike-Fatal Followup-1,232,415,937 Ratit | 406943021 Cloud | 396880659 Inuf | 384913863 Hike | 362348709 Devor | 351821148 Anglo | 233734817 Suade | 129892257 Mellz | 115079363 Fille | 95183404 (02:05) Uigirf the Magician: 3968459308 Ratitzx-Searing Passion-1,215,783,029 Inuf | 577912952 Ratit | 560643240 Hike | 386422074 Cloud | 382379445 Devor | 334862167 Anglo | 264462811 Suade | 227632047 Sheph | 181060406 (that one was a bad pull. ninja pulled, only 3 groups in raid) (01:04) Omzzem the Enchanter: 7277083599 Firamas-Draconic Breath-2,948,566,781 Firam | 1085166192 Inuf | 827378056 Hike | 765809068 Ratit | 748408062 Cloud | 669396139 Devor | 499198007 Marib | 345996787 Skitt | 299780325 Sheph | 286824729 (04:36) Tollen'Eod: 5505854475 Firamas-Claw of Khati Sha-3,168,107,389 Firam | 828913408 Inuf | 812431303 Ratit | 760928857 Cloud | 538632381 Hike | 493280517 Devor | 396472743 STOP ******* CRYING If you find you aren't competing as a summoner to the other t1's in your raid and you are equally geared, you are bad at summoner. There isn't another explanation. I can post HUNDREDS of parses where I, and the other 3 summoners in rawr, the summoners in rev, the summoners that were in fatality, and the summoners in other top guilds (the people that the content and classes are balanced around) that show that they can compete. The only viable exception is a beastlord with a hammer. Summoners are balanced. This thread needs to be gone.
