It's never a bad idea to compare other classes in the same raid to see how efficient or inefficient the raid is.
This thread has been derailed over and over. Yeah, it's a bad idea, this is a wizard thread so lets stay within forum guidelines and keep it about the wizard.
You can't say wizard is is underpowered unless you compare it to other classes within the same raid. Seeing as how his raid only has 2 classes that meets dps expectation with current gearing, seeing more break down of other classes dps will give us a better picture of where wizard stands. If his raid is efficient, then that wizard dps is below the avg dps for that encounter. On the flip side, if the raid is running all selfish equipment, then obviously that wizard is very talented to attain that high of a dps without a fervor hammer.
I agree on efficiency but this 1 parse from 1 raid does not even come close to opening anyone's eyes to where the wizard stands at the moment. 1st it is an AE fight, 2nd it is from the #4 ranked guild game wide. There are 124 guilds attempting to raid at the moment. Less then 50 have killed Ashenfell, barely 70 have killed Kyrus of the Old ways and some of those within the last few weeks. There are many wizards is the point, along with many types of fights in a raid. Everyone will argue that as an end game raider you have a better picture of where the wizard stands. My contention is dps is dps and skill is skill. Yes, many raids do not gear properly, buff properly, set up groups properly however, there are some very skilled players in some of those raids. If a wizard in those raids is getting smoked ST and just edging to top 5 on AE and is a skilled player to me that says a lot and something is wrong. I have out parsed many wizard's that have a guild ranking much higher then my own, my point is I think it is better to look at wizards...skilled wizards, game wide. It seems we are concentrating only on the top wizards and circumstances are just different for every guild. I.E. Ire hammer, 8th runes, 100% infusion, Duality resets etc. Don't get me wrong I LOVE seeing those parses it is fun and cool, but not all raids are created equal. The description itself from EQII of a wizard is 1 or 2 AE fights everyone goes "Ooooooh, Ahhhhhh" over the parse. No thanks, balance and fix the class the way it was intended and is STILL described as, a single target dps mage. No other type of mage is able to match the Wizard's ability to inflict such great devastation upon a single target.
Who cares how the wizard in guild #95 out of 124 is doing? This thread is about the capabilities of the class, not what a certain wizard is doing. Also, discussing people that actually know how to play their character is going to yield more beneficial results. I think it's safe to say people in guild killing so little content are far from maximizing the class, and balancing should never revolve around those people for obvious reasons.
Well show us some wizzie or other classes parses from that fight that you feel meet the dps expectations.
I don't have any wiz parses to compare, but they are behind warlocks on similar fight if the raid make up is the same.
I'm not talking about similar fights, I'm talking about that fight. You said the wizard dps is below the average dps for that encounter if our raid is efficient. It is efficient, so lets see something proving your statement.
Balancing has to revolve around class capabilities. If a few wizards can maximize the classes potential and parse very well you can't simply beef up the class to raise the dps for sub par wizards. Doing this will result in making a class overpowered for skilled players and you will see guilds packing that class into raids in order to steamroll content. As far as what content guilds are killing, if this was any other expansion I would agree that guilds farther in progression have a huge edge from the gear they get from harder content. However this expansion there is basically nothing good you get from clearing harder content with the exception of class cloaks depending on class, the faction ring that most haven't got yet, and the new forge golem loot that most haven't got yet either. All the other upgrades from harder content is minor and not game changing.
So by your logic the ONLY people that understand a class are the ones in the top guilds in game? That is arrogant. And I disagree, if you only balance around classes that are maximized where is the balance? VERY few are maximized. The average player, the majority of subscriptions are in guilds ranked #40 to #124. Either way, top or bottom, best or worst the answer is the same, Wizards need help.
I've purged my log folder earlier this week so I don't have any parse for full raid complement. Only one i got right now is from today, where we were short handed, and the psionists were spread out, hence the low VC and Fae Fire procs. Similiar gearing, except no aura share, Fabled Ank and Grim Sentence charms instead of DT and Salvo charms. Running ToT 3 set jewlry and praticed wrist for group. Have hit 440mil with full raid compliment, but that parse is gone.
No, but considering I (Magmag) am the one that taught you everything you know about playing a wizard from when you asked on here 2 years ago and I sent you tells when you were in Bloodlust parsing next to nothing I can hardly rationalize why you're here lecturing me about the very same class I showed you how to play. I'm not saying there are no wizards that know the ins and outs of the class in lower end guilds, but the number is astonishingly low. If you think for a second that a meager 2 years of having a clue about the class makes you some kind of expert then I don't really know what else to tell you. Based on your level of knowledge when I talked to you way back when I can presume you don't do much personal testing and just rely on what other people tell you to play the class to the best of your ability. If you tested stuff yourself you would have had a much better grasp than you did at the time. I'm not saying this to bash you, but to put things into perspective. I might add that I was quite respectful with you back then and some of your questions were very suspect and now you seem to have an awfully sharp tongue on here compared to when you began posting asking questions about wizards. Maybe mellow your tone and stop acting like you've mastered the class better than people that have played it hardcore for over a decade, especially when one of them is the guy that showed you how to play it at a respectable level. Like Faceroller said, if you're balancing around people that don't know how to maximize the class then the people that are great at it will be so overpowered it won't be fair to everybody else. This is what happened in ToV. People were on here crying that the class wasn't good enough when the good wizards were doubling (if not more) the next highest person on AE fights in a lot of guilds. The notion that the class should be balanced around somebody playing it at 80% efficiency is absurd. I know Face, I 100% agree with you. I said the same thing you just said, just in different words. The top end guilds are more likely where you can find what the class is capable of so those are the better guilds to use for comparing classes. We're on the same page here, but I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying.
I wasn't disagreeing with you I just used what you wrote as a quote and wrote my thoughts on the subject.
Ok maybe I should have been more clear...How about an actual raid parse (you know like 24 real people) during normal hours with the same lag we put up with and without every buff imaginable on 1 person.
All I can say is, Rubick, I love you man. And you are right, a few tips and discussions with you really helped my wizard. I appreciated it then and I appreciate it now. We are most definitely on the same side here.
