Dungeon Maker Changes Coming Dec. 16

I am sure you would understand the issue more if for instance they decided to nerf the new expansion making all rewards for questing in AoM no longer valid only one month after purchasing the expansion.

I play on the Freeport server, we have many many people, among them many new or returned players. I myself am a 10+ year returned holder of three accounts. My family also has accounts that I pay for. That is a quite a bit of scratch invested in SOE and in EQ2. I suppose I feel if a feature is to be cancelled for all practical purposes, a warning in the marketplace in big red letters "This feature will be cancelled in the next month of your purchase of this feature." should be posted before any valued SOE customers spend their hard earned SC on said feature.

Players could then make an educated, and informed decision whether or not to make said purchase.

I don't disagree - more warning should have been given, and as I have said in another post, SOE should refund those who have bought DM stuff recently.

I'm totally ambivalent. I know I probably purchased it along with an expansion some time back. But, like SOEmote, I just never used it. But I do think it was mis-used far beyond what it intentions were.

"Play It Your Way" never meant going out of your way to jimmy the system to your liking. All it has meant is play it anyway you want within the accepted parameters of the game. Those parameters to be decided by SOE.

And I know I will do it to zones with zero shame or regret.

I invested both time and money (rl and ingame) into making a character that was capable of pling, I have only maybe made back my initial 1000p investment since I mostly run my main account and guildies for free. So yes, I am extremely disappointed in the loss of my powerleveling place, just as I was when they nerfed it above level 95. Except now I wont even be able to get AA's easily so Im glad that I think I have most of the classes I wanted to play around 95 already.

I have much more money than time in this game, and have purchased 4 heroic characters even with my ability to run DMs because I only want to play near the cap, but this is definitely the last straw for me. I do not get any ounce of enjoyment out of running the 1-95 zones for the Nth time again, and loved the fact that I could do other things while DM pling while waiting for cooldowns or just not feel pressured to keep pulling mobs if I had to take care of other things. DMs actually let me feel like I could make worthwhile progress even if I could only log in for an hour or so.

All of you people that are happy that they are removing options are ridiculous. If you dont like it dont use it, but the removal of a feature that allowed me to get what I wanted out of the game means that there is going to be one less person for you to play with (Im sure Im not the only one) and that definitely is how you kill this type of a game. Accessibility and options are never things that should be removed.

Greetings everyone.

In my personal experience, everyone I know who were using DM as leveling didn't do it to skip content. All they want is to hit AoM at level 100 with full MC gears. They are still planning to do all the quests and farm heroic contents for better gears. This is their way of playing and I don’t see nothing wrong with it. Calling them exploiting DM for XP when the devs knew all along it’s a bit harsh in my opinion. Don’t worry, none of them /ragequit. They are used to this kind of reaction from SOE. Over the years you learn to adapt. Now instead of leveling in DM, they are doing it in old content and Frostfell.

The one thing I don’t understand is the intolerance of other players of their way of playing the game since they aren't affecting anyone’s game playing and I repeat, they are not skipping contents or undermining devs efforts....

Hey, as long as you're nice about it and not like that one guy on AB. Forget his name, but his sole intention was to go in and PL whoever was paying him while mocking anyone in the zone not paying for his PLs lol.

So I see plenty of reasonable explanation in Windstalker's post for why exp is being removed. Can we get an official explanation for why marks are being removed as well? The OP sounds all well and noble for defending the game's "health and welfare" from the "easy button" people have apparently been hammering enough to spur you into action, but this additional change isn't addressed in the slightest, and I find that disconcerting.

I personally have only ever used the DM in avatar mode, a fun alternative way of playing the game as opposed to the standard grind. Whenever I grew bored of using the exact same spells ad nauseum, I'd simply search for a nice creative DM dungeon and become a gingerbread man for a while. Or a myconid. Or a minotaur. You know, something exotic I can't be otherwise. I would use the marks to buy more avatars to spice things up with. Now it seems that will no longer be an option unless I shell out SC (the only other purchasing method for those avatar unlockers at present)?

You feel the need to patch what you've deemed an exploit in the form of removing exp from the DM system. Fine. Whether or not the action is agreeable, you at least gave reasoning for it for us to go off of. Please give the same regard to all the players you're affecting with the removal of marks. Because it seems like there's quite a few of us, and without an official explanation many are coming to some pretty negative conclusions. I'm trying to hold out hope there's some viable explanation that hasn't been shared.

So what I see in other words is they feel that not enough folks are playing the current content, and they want to force folks to play current content. I had only used do to get things like patch kits, debt removers, so now what happens to those items, I guess sc only. So in one way I get why they are doing it. In another well just about everybody used this process to zoom to 95 and even 100 if you were lucky. Now we get the hammer after the barn door was open and all the animals escaped. If they are really going to do this, then they best address the xp options and either bump down the amount of xp needed to get to 100 or increase the xp given by mobs/zones. Just shaking my head at what seams to be a slap in the face, so much for play your way.

Sadly, I think right now, I'd have to agree with SoE. Having people brag they went from 95th to 100th, then having everyone funnel into DM was lame. It flooded DM with these stupid dungeons where you'd go up to mob, and BOOM, you're dead. Why? there were 50 mobs parked on that same spot. Not everyone labeled it as a group AE zone. So those of us who would do these, would have to find that 'right one' then fear playing other ones. The story ones gave no exp anyways compared. As for the marks, going through a dungeon to find out you made 200 exp since every mob was a triple weak was really annoying, too, when you spent the last hour in one. OH, but you got a ton of marks! These were made just to farm marks. I personally made some story ones, (I thought they were funny!) but only friends would play them once, as they didn't give that huge experience, since it wasn't 50 mobs parked on each spot. When you zone into one, and the game basically locks up because there are so many mobs that popped out, it's really really stupid. Having to do this for exp is really really stupid as well. It was a nice idea, but it was ruined as it was completely flooded with farming dungeons. I do hope they fix this. It 'was' fun to play around with. I even did this with groups, but it seemed anyone without ae's was useless if you did anything that required a group. The ones people actually work into let people down (myself included) when you'd make it through the whole thing and got maybe 5% of what you would of one on the ones designed strictly for exp.

Please revamp! Have dungeon maker only mercs with green flames like the mount, and have them only drop from boss mobs randomly. Have other incentives, like marks drop from boss mobs (I totally didn't steal those ideas from CoE zones). Let us make zones like some other in game dungeons. And while you're at it, let us use Karnor's Castle etc as guild halls!

Here's an easy fix.

Cap xp to a max of 10%? of your current adventure level per run
Cap tokens to a max of 100? per run.

Sure people could still PL but they would have to constantly zone in and out, which atleast means the people getting PL'd would have to stay at the computer and zone in and out manually, putting it on par or worse than normal PL's in contested zones.

It would still leave the tokens for people who want to do runs for them and give some xp too while they do it.

Sure, it won't make everyone happy but it would be a nice compromise.
Just don't give it to the free-to-play players.

I don't know if this has been said yet at all or not, but I just want to say it. You're removing both the experience and dungeon marks from the dungeons, so what incentive do players have to play them? They get zero rewards. Then much fewer people will play them and what point is there for someone to make DM dungeons that are fun to play through? I now see DM as a huge canvas for creating a giant lair or home.

I used to create some DMs to play with my girlfriend when she was working so when she got off we could play it and see how it worked. I especially liked the ones that split off and so I could make a challenge room off to the side that would be almost impossible for the two of us. Honestly playing those dungeons was her favorite part of the game because it was something that we created, something that was difficult as well as something that gave a reward. We loved spending our dungeon marks on all of the little packs to get new random monsters. Her favorite creature of all time are gelatinous cubes and she is sad that there are so few in video games anymore. Our goal was to eventually make a dungeon completely out of those cubes. It was something to slowly work towards. Now, with the dungeon marks being removed there is either one of two things that will happen. You won't put the single mob monster spawners in the toolbox and we won't make the dungeon ever, or you give us unlimited gelatinous cubes and it wasn't something that we worked towards. Either way, it was not an accomplishment and we do not enjoy it.

But I am not just saying to leave the dungeon maker spawns and other tools as the only things in the DM shop and then still make marks drop. The other rewards are there for people who just run the dungeons, not make them. I do not want to see this feature no longer played. If something must be done, take away the experience but leave us the option to do it for rewards still.

Dungeon Mark rewards will be removed

I actually liked doing some DMs and being able to buy a nice weapon or piece of gear for my leveling Alt. Honestly with the EXP being removed, not going to even bother with DM anymore. It really is only a tool for people who like to Roleplay now.

Also I just bought the Dungeon Maker tool for my account less than a month ago and now its purpose and utility is being removed. Quite honestly, I'd appreciate a refund, this type of announcement is the wrong way to go about these things.

"TOP TIP"
You should have completely DISABLED EXP gain from 95-100 from DM.

Oi. I spent SC on this feature recently.

Real, shiny, SC.

...This just doesn't seem fair. I know, nothing is 'fair' about MMOs in a way, but I would think I should at least get a refund.

First off why bump down the xp needed to get to 100? they just bumped up all the xp in the new xpac and it gives imo a great amount of xp for doing quests and missions (solo, ad solo, heroic, event heroic/ daily, weekly). There is no reason to drop the xp reqs for lvl 100.

Second I have a ftp and paid account. I have never bought anything for my ftp account and they could always use DMs for xp. so there is no need for a refund there iirc its part the game to use. you only had to pay to unlock the ability to make DMs again iirc. Now I don't care what soe does with them I don't use them much at all really. I made some dungeons for people to use over time and I have 200k dungeon marks but honestly whatever. I like real content that gives really useable rewards and challenge. Outside the repair kits from the DMs there was nothing useful imo but they throw plat at you now so really not a loss. There are agnostic dungeons and plenty of other ways to actually enjoy the game, like playing the content made by the devs. And lvling isn't hard even at the lower lvls. only really 80-90 is where I felt the biggest slow down. For those who spent sc on DM accessories that was kind of your call. should you be reimbursed maybe, but im pretty sure UELA says SoE has the right to make changes to the game at anytime they choose. Now is that something to hide behind probably not. But instead of jumping on the SoE is the devil train like most do when change happens, post constructive ideas and feed back (which some of you have, which is awesome btw) instead of I'm taking my toys and going home. Just so you are aware the customer is NOT always right, their opinions however should be considered. Is this a good move for SoE? maybe or maybe not its not my call. The only thing I would say is maybe an alternative could be remove xp or have it turn off/extremely down after lvl 50 (or whatever low lvl) maybe but keep the marks at all lvls and possibly add some more up to date rewards for those who like running them. Then it would take the power leveling out of the equation but offer some level of rewards to the players who use them. Just a constructive thought.

With all due respect, this does have far reaching implications on every one else's game play. It affects server economy when massive amounts of plat are stockpiled by people who offer "professional" powerleveling via DM. It affects all of us when developer resources are consumed by having to make repeated reactionary adjustments to the DM system itself and other content to compensate for it. Those resources could better be used to address the things - including things in this very thread that have been shouted for - instead of having to monitor and tweak the overall XP curve every day.

Keeping a core game system like the experience curve simpler, rather than putting in hundreds of conditionals to work around something like DM, is a clear gain to everyone - both the developers and every single player. The less complex it is, the less chance for unintended consequences, and the more time those people in charge of that part of the game can spend on the other things we are asking for.

Removing the marks - as I've mentioned before - is a separate issue, and one that I hope they address fairly. I don't want to see everything moved exclusively to station cash or something that only all-access members can access. The consumables available via DM marks are also all available via station cash - which is another concern, and a valid one that also is making some people question the motives behind that portion of the change. There has already been one major system change that was similar, with the removal of the goblin games - but that one was slightly different in that you could literally gamble and win those items. I'd like to think that change was a legal issue rather than an accounting one. It remains to be seen how they are going to approach the DM mark change - I hope I am not left wanting.

I would also like a refund please. I bought it last month. I also am a 10 yr Vet .

I bought it to create and have some fun in Dungeons, and yes I was actually having some fun again. My Fun wasn't just coming from building and running the dungeon, it was coming from the rewards. I could use the marks to buy different gear and spawners. The xp was great because PUG Groups in dungeon finder are sometimes not very desirable.
I also bought it because we could get a mount from the marks.

As for the XP there's no difference in taking someone into instances and Mentoring down, than taking someone through dungeons. That was quite a silly reason for removing XP from Dungeons.....

Greetings Everyone,

We appreciate all of the constructive feedback you are providing and understand a lot of your concerns. We want want to hear your feedback, even if it is negative, so that we can make improvements. That being said, I would like to remind everyone that posts must still comply with forum guidelines. Posts should remain constructive, on-topic, and avoid making insults against SOE employees.

Thank you.

The daft thing is, there are DM activators as quest reward options on the new Frostfell quest.....

It's not so daft when you consider the original state of DM. It was meant to be run in these monster forms. Unfortunately, too many people clamored about being able to play as their toons and no one had the foresight to see what would happen if you let fully-geared characters run the zones.

That being said, I believe the only way to actually keep an xp reward in these zones would be to remove the play as self option. It's what brought about all the subsequent changes in xp and mark gains.