1. reduce ST ward but add "damage reduction" component to it duration this effect = 5 - 6 sec./ maybe 10% damage reduction per tick This utility saves shaman in raid and other healers will see in parse themselves 2.add "damage reduction" component to Group ward too duration this effect = reuse time of GW/ maybe 20% damage reduction This utility saves shaman in raid and will help us in grouphealing instances and raid If shaman spamming wards it will significantly increase survival of group but will lose in damage Figures certainly should be corrected on the basis of test results
1. Defilers already have a ward that works exactly like this, which means we would now have two mediocre single wards. Since a lot of shamans tend to stack their single wards on the whole group in a raid, the DR component would be pretty much wasted on most of the group members. 2. The way the group ward currently works it would basically just be another random single ward with a damage reduction attached to it, see #1.
I've suggested this a few times and I have seen others come upon it on their own. I'll mention it again because it seems like a good idea and I know for a fact it works in other games. Change wards so they will use the points to block a percentage of damage from each hit. this is opposed to how they work now which is they block as much as possible until drained. -wards will stay up longer while still providing a benefit, specifically lowering the amount of direct healing needed -the concept of sustained healing will remained intact since they do not block damage completely -blocking a percentage allows for the wards to be 'uncapped' on their various restrictions and can even be significantly boosted to increase their longevity This is how the channeler pets work more or less, outright blocking a percentage of incoming damage. This is also how 'wards' work in most other MMO's and it works well. Since shaman wards would have to be more closely maintained than a channeler's pet it seems it would make since they block a higher percentage as well. Something like 40-50% for ST wards and 30-35% for group wards. Random example: Target is warded for 500k Enemy uses a 1 million hit 400k of the hit is warded Target gets hit for 600k 100k of the ward is left Since wards won't be blocking damage outright things like the CB cap and any other limitations can be removed since a bigger ward simply means it stays up longer rather than potentially blocking too much damage. Even if a ward was 5 million with this system you still have to use other heals and you can't expect the target to last through anything. It would also allow wards to better grow in strength like other heals with better equipment. The benefit of wards being bigger would be the shamans able to more comfortably throw out direct heals, buffs, debuffs and damage much like they did before the changes to healing/HP. Shamans would still have to use direct heals more than they did before ToV but they won't be straining at it as much as they do now. I think its a fine compromise as well as a better system.
I like this idea, it seems to me the only solution! And make a group ward like... the "Aegis" or add this as a second version of our groupward.
Channeler interception works sort of like that. On that one million hit, a basic channeler interception (nothing to buff interception, construct in good health) would remove 250,000 so that 750,000 would have to be dealt with in other ways. Interception is applied to incoming damage before wards. As long as the channeler keeps his construct in good health interception can continue indefinately.
It sounds interesting Neiloch, but how will stacking wards work and replenishing wards? I assume stacking wards works like this: Target is warded for 300K single target.Target is warded for 500K group.Enemy uses 1 million hit.300K is warded single target.700K gets through.280K is warded with group ward.Target gets hit for 420K.220K of group ward is left.amirite? But replenishing wards generally have a smaller number and refresh.
Could be a good fix for wards, however I'd make the absorption more than 30%. Channelers also have a buff that heals for a small amount with each hit, and this sometimes can actually negate almost all damage, as well, the prestige that adds a HoT component to the target of interception.. Sure it's not huge, but at this point every bit of healing for a shaman helps. 50-60% seems like a decent number if multiple wards can stack to cover the bleed-over. Whatever it is, SOMETHING has to change.
Pretty much. If the wards can cap out on how much of a hit they can block then wards themselves can be allowed to be MUCH bigger as well. IIRC wards were made to scale less than other heals to prevent wards from outright blocking huge amounts of damage, trivializing content. Someone face smashing the mob on an AE won't eat up an entire group ward either unless they got hit several times before dying. I agree. Wards would have to block a bigger percentages (and be boosted in power so they last multiple hits) since they don't come with the various 'pet perks.' Also the wards would require more effort to actively maintain compared to the channeler pet's health imo. Just as long as stacking can't block hits outright. That would go against the idea of sustained healing and be a bit of a step backwards. Blocking hits outright should be reserved for things like stoneskins or other avoidance mechanics. Maybe make it so no matter how many wards are stacked the most a hit can be reduced by is 90%. There are lot of aspects of this that would need to be worked out and I imagine the devs are in better position to do that, having lots of data to mine and various formulas at their disposal for power and balance. But I think just the base concept of wards blocking only a portion of damage instead of as much as possible until depleted is sound.
If it is based off a percentage then damage shouldn't be warded outright. It can trivialize a hit, but damage will always get through. Target is warded for 300K single target. Empowered Barrier wards for 500K Target is warded for 500K group. Enemy uses 10K hit. 4000 is warded single target, leaving 296K on single target. 6000 slips past. 2400 is warded with EB, leaving 497600 on EB. 3600 slips past. 1440 is warded with group ward, leaving 498560 on the group ward. Target is hit for 2160. That's a small hit, which I assume will be coming frequently from the enemy, then you add in the big hits and the damage keeps rolling in at a reduced rate. I like your idea. You can only stack so many wards on a target too, and it shouldn't matter how big the wards get, because they drop after 30 seconds and the percentage getting through is based on the damage received not the size of the ward. They could even have the base damage blocked at 50%, but increase/decrease it depending on your stance. 40% in offensive and 60% in healing stance. xD Wraithwall wouldn't even block small damage and would only stack on the big hits like the 1 million point hit. The healing that comes with our wards only happens once, not when damage is received so that also prevents it from blocking a hit outright, like what Eileitha described.
You're right, I was thinking all the wards blocking at once not one after another for some reason. So even a crazy stacking of wards wouldn't block damage outright, just severely marginalize it. As a matter of fact that could even be a waste since after a few reductions you are blocking small amounts.
Honestly the only problem with wards is how they apply and are used in group ward scenarios. That will probably never get fixed, but ward amounts and the effectiveness of a shaman is still there. People will probably try to flame me for saying that but it's true. It only seems like shaman are broken because things hit harder and we have more health. Those two things create a playing field that makes all healers viable and some have to be played with more thought and more skill than people are used too. The only healer that really got pushed down by the changes were inquisitors but that's another topic. Sure mobs hit stipid hard and sometimes your tank will just fall over but that isn't different than any other expansion. I didn't come here to say that you guys are bad and unskilled, but I do feel that a lot of shaman have been exposed for how skilled they actually are now that they can't do 60-70% of the healng on named fights with ease. You also have to remember that its still early in the expansion. Gear will get better, and things will probably get toned down slightly if quality of life doesn't improve.
In referring to my post about channelers able to intercept 25% (baseline) there was this response: You may not realize it but you're asking for interception better then channelers'. Damage intercepted by a channeler is intercepted, not negated -- it goes to the construct which must be healed by the channeler. The construct must be healed quickly as interception is reduced as the construct's health goes down. The suggestion people seem to be pushing here appears to simply negate the damage and remove it from play. Furthermore you're asking for higher interception percentages then base channeler interception. So you're asking for something which works like interception except it's much better then the interception channelers get. Interception is a core ability of channelers and the main reason channelers even have constructs. To give another class even better interception then what channelers have would be a MASSIVE nerf to channelers. Nothing like nerfing the new class into the dust even before it even gets off the ground. I would be VERY surprised if SoE did such a thing. You'd have much better luck asking them to improve channeler interception then to ask for something better then channeler interception. I think you'll have to find another solution. My suggestion is to find a solution which involves more then just wards and uses multiple priest classes. Don't try to do the entire job by yourselves. P.S. About that buff which heals a small amount with each hit. I think you're referring to the ability which heals for 75% of the intercepted damage. I.e. it runs off of interception. No interception, no heal. It's nice, and I keep it loaded, but it's not the be all and end all. Certainly not a reason for the class to exist.
I play both a Defiler and a Channeler. I'm pretty well versed in each of their healing capabilities, and currently the Channeler blows the Defiler out of the water by a mile. Healing the construct is % based, not raw HP based. Increasing your primary stats on the channeler greatly increases the constructs health. I was in a group the other day and my constructs HP was 2.2M and I'm in mostly quested with a few arcane pieces. That's a LOT of absorption, and using the proper construct heals for the encounter makes pet health management relatively simple. Most fights you don't even need to heal the construct. What you are forgetting is Wards ALREADY negate ALL damage they receive. The suggestion above was to have the amount of damage they absorb be less so wards stay in effect longer with some bleed through instead of being outright one-shotted off. This allows Prestige abilities like Wards Bane to actually be worth specing again. Having wards work more like channeler intercept would not instantly make channelers suck because there are so many other tools in their toolbelt that Shaman don't have. Channelers are AE healing machines. The shaman would still have to actively heal any damage received by the tank and they have VERY few tools to do that. The whole point of this suggested change is to help make the Shaman class less of a 5 button spam, and allow them to actually use the other tools they have available without worrying that the tank will die.
Something that came up in a group I was in a day or two ago... Why not make the heals/wards do different things based on the class they are used on? So, the example that was proposed was basically: Basic Single Target Ward If Fighter, Ward for 30% of Max Health If Not Fighter, Ward for 100k (after mods, so whatever the base would be) The same logic could be applied to the single target heals, and not just for Shamans. This would massively help all healers with the rapidly inflating tank health pools. I don't know if the same logic could be used for things like group wards, but I'm sure it could for group heals/reactives/HoTs. Note: Don't comment on the numbers, comment on the idea. Numbers are just random ones to illustrate the idea.
First of all it doesn't remove the damage from play, it impacts the ward and removes points from it. Wards will be drained completely and faster than a channeler pet and will have to be maintain much more rigorously than a channeler pet since it is binary, ward exists and then it doesn't. Wards intercept damage right now with 100% interception its just their value is negligible which is why they disappear so fast and wards disappearing so fast is a huge part of the problem. Shamans have to compensate by spamming their lesser direct heals and wards as soon as they come up which prevents them from doing much, if any at all, of their secondary abilities while other healers comfortably can in the same scenario. This is simply lowering how much of each hit a ward can block (down from 100%) and then increasing how big the wards are so they stay up longer. I was thinking about this too a while back but there a re two big problems. 1. Having it purely percent based doesn't allow for growth. A shaman now and shaman a few months from now all in best in slot gear is still warding for 30% on tanks. This leads to problem 2 2. I could roll a shaman to 95, adorn out all the crit chance and be warding fighters EXTREMELY well from the outset. Worst gear in the raid yet I'm still warding the fighter for 300k. On the flip side you could be an AWESOMELY geared shaman but if you are healing a low end fighter there isn't a whole lot you can do, you are still only warding for 30% regardless of your gear. How well you work as a healer being entirely dependent on how well the fighter is geared out is counter-intuitive to say the least. I thought about maybe the percent in addition to an amount. So with your example it wards for 100k on a non-fighter, fighters get 100k+30% of max health. Then the shaman can grow that raw amount. The problem is wards start getting huge while intercepting 100% of damage and this starts going against the idea of 'sustained healing' which the devs want to keep intact. If wards continue to intercept 100% of damage they will have to remain so small they provide little respite to the shaman, or they will have to be made so big as to start negating the need for sustained healing. Any middle ground , if it even exists, would be so hard to hit and maintain I can't see how it would be worthwhile.
This. There are people who have played Defiler for such a short time that they don't remember when the class didn't do 80% or more of MTG healing on a raid. This class always used to require a bit more skill than *group ward, single target ward, rinse/repeat, melee*, but that hasn't been necessary for several expansions. I am not saying that adjustments don't need to be made, and that everything is 'fine just fine', because it's not. But I do think this expansion takes us back to where grouping was necessary to get things done. This EXACTLY what everyone has been yelling about for quite some time 'the game's too easy and no one ever has to group'. Just no one likes it when the changes affect YOU.
I always thought that dogdog would have been perfect as a type of "ward". Similar to how channelers construct works. Dogdog intercepts XXX damage, your "Ward" works on dogdog alone, to determine how much he can absorb. Dogdog can be picked to take single target or group damage. If that is too similar to channeler, you can make wards in to a reactive hot. Three ward types for healing (single target, group, raid). Each hit heals for XXX or % of damage done. Wards are maintained, no concentration buffs. You can even add two other "groups" of wards, one that does reactive damage (single, group, raid) and one that does a mixture of debuffing (single, group, raid). Through AA's you can upgrade the effects or duration or add small trigger % chances to proc a cure or something of that nature. If you want to get fancy, you can even make it so that an opportunity procs on each ward type, and if you hit a corresponding spell in time it boosts its effectivness by XXX or %. The ward types would not stack, so if you have enough healing it might benefit your group or raid to have 2 shamans, one to place a debuff ward, another to place a heal ward. The effectivness would be less for each type, IE single target gives best return, group less than that, raid even less. Mystic damage would be more along the lines of melee debuffs and damage, defiler would be more along the lines of caster debuff and damage. Just a few thoughts.
The theme for the constructive suggestions! Leave everything as it is NOT constructive suggestion (even if the devs think so) Please stick to this line
Maybe for some its been short term but you are hearing complaints from hardcore/lifelong shamans as well. I already know of two that quit the game outright, one who went channeler and another that is borderline switching to warden. Shamans are still desired but no one wants to do it when literally just before the expansion plenty were willing. That's EXACTLY the term I was trying to think of. Quality of life. Shamans can still perform and are still wanted but for the person actually PLAYING the shaman, quality of life has PLUMMETED. I'm not trying to make it so their wards or heals are outright better, but to change them so they put out roughly the same numbers without being so heavily straining on the player, strained more than any other healer putting out the same (or better) performance.
