Myself would love to see this, would make for pretty good situation for all the tanks. I never understood why they just didn't make a zone where 6 named, certain tank HAS to tank it or wipe. That way every class gets a shot at tanking mob. Of course there will be the argument not every guild has all 6, scale it down to subclass and 2 mobs in each zone HAS to be tanked by this subclass. yeah I know, sounds a little cheesy, but honestly tanks are the ones who have the most beefs because every other class can fill a raid slot without issue, maybe certain ones better than others, but healers always have a spot, dps always spots, utility always spots. Tanks, fight for 2-4 spots on raids hence the major arguments always popping up on threads like this. Side note, we did bring a guard in for our raiding force to share tanking with me, partly because sometimes just nice to get behind the mob and say howdy, but also anticipating there going to be situations where Guard will be ideal in next expansion.
Well, that pigeon holes the game. Some raids do not have access to the Tank Archetypes let alone all six tank classes. The closest recent fight I know was Medorius, Mandoril and Mikla Imbued also known as "Sages Imbued" in which one of each archetype had to tank one sage. During the fight the tanks had to rotate which boss they were tanking. As Myself and some others have said. All tanks should be able to tank unless the situation with Sages Imbued happens. However, just because say a Guardian can tank 8 Adds doesn't mean he should because the Berserker is more suited for it. Crusaders have the most breathing room as they are the "jack of all trades" tank with SK's buffing DPS and Paladins buffing Heals. They can somewhat fill the roll of the other tank classes. Brawlers seem to not want the position they were intended for which is the 3rd tank position that controls the fight and helps the other tanks do their jobs better. I hope that Guard you got is good, because good ones or even competent ones are hard to find. The class just doesn't allow for mistakes.
I never said they were stuck in the 3rd tank slot. Just that was their intended slot. A Brawler could do the job of a Warrior or Crusader but maybe not as well as a Warrior or Crusader. It's not a "wipe the raid if the Brawler has to tank for an extended time" its more of a "The brawler tanks until we get the rest of the raid up, then he can go back to DPS and buffing the other tanks." Also Brawlers being the 3rd tank has always been my opinion. That is why I rolled a Guardian not a Monk when I started the game. I wanted to MT not backup tank, which is what the class descriptions told me. Now here I am, a High-geared Guardian, raiding on my Illusionist because two Monks do my job better than my class can even though I have tanked all the same encounters successfully. So tell me, how is that fair to a Guardian? It's not just my guild that does this, few guilds use Guardians because of the DPS loss from both the class and from other skills the Monk/Bruiser have.
But again, in order to make it reasonable all 3 tank types would have to be needed in every future encounter. Otherwise you'd have a required MT, a required OT, and maybe but probably not a brawler. That is why pigeonholing brawlers into the third tank role is bad. If you want fair every tank should be able to do everything, that's the only true fairness.
All fights should require or heavily advise 3-4 tanks in my opinion. It's not fair to the tank archetype to have a fight where only 2 Tanks are needed because that just denies players opportunity to raid in favor of DPS/Healer classes. Because I believe that I think it's not fair for Brawlers to be barging in on the roll of Warriors.
Among my toons three of them are fighter classes - Paladin, Monk and Guardian, and I will agree with Estred that the guardian class really needs to be worked on. I love the concept of the class, but it does feel much slower when compared to the other two. Also, there is content I can do completely solo on my pally that I couldn't touch on my guardian without a healer merc. I'm OK with guardians having lower DPS - I didn't roll a guardian to do damage, but I think their survivability should at least match that of the crusaders if not exceed it.
I just had to post on this.. So these plate tanks are saying.. monk's shouldn't do dps because they have avoidance? Last I check plate tanks could get 70% uncontested easier then brawlers. I mean if you are a plate tank in a endgame raid guild and don't have max avoidance.. you are pretty fail. In Onyx juhmbo.. he was decent. not the best guard in the game but pretty good and gearing his guard.. He held agro well and his avoidance reports on mobs were 90% + sometimes he easly maxed his avoidance. Def tanking he wasn't that far off dps from me when I was in def tanking.. maybe because I have to wear lvl 90 weapons to get same avoidance as him, otherwise I would have to adorn all my gear with + block adorns lol. Yet his damage mitigation exceded mine. Yes I have temps but big one shot hits can be pretty random. Monks are good tanks right now, but In no way superior to guards as a MT during challenging fights. If I could use drinal's myth shield I would use it on my monk for hard fights instead of an offhand any day. Content that doesn't matter and you are out geared for, yes a brawler will out perform a guard because being able to mitigate more damage doesn't matter. As for those stacks in SG raid zone.. only mob that I really noticed them being a problem, now I have not raided that far into the zone yet, but that mob that spawns a doppleganger of itself, with tsunami up I went from 3 stacks to like 9 stacks in 4 seconds sometimes .. other times stacks come on slower. I am not sure what causes them but u def cant avoid them with tsunami. I think all tanks are pretty close right now. I dunno the specifics on other tanks aa's but some of brawlers are worthless and won't ever me used. and this post was just about fixing them to be used in some way.
Crippling aura is considered a spell afaik, it's not avoidable but it may be resistible when you consider its sporadic nature. It's just a % chance to apply on the mobs target. Also lol at beneficial duration in new aa tree, monks are already broken enough, this will just be silly.
I agree we prob don't need the beneficial duration, but monks are far from broken" I assume you mean op" Take away monk's def temps and what do u have.. the worst tank in game. Take away all fighters def temps and monk will be again worst tank in game. Their temps allow them to shine in trivial encounter that raids are out geared for and can kill before temps run out. But this I am sure isn't the intended use. The intended use if for them to be a viable endgame MT and without them they wouldn't be able to MT. I thought the intended main tanks were pally, monk, guard.. Now why do we have more monk MT's. Well probly because outside of HM raid content.. Pally and guard are not as fun to play as sk, zerker. brusier. monk. So you will find have a larger crop of the other class's to chose from to tank for you thus having better monk main tanks and very few decent mt guardians and pallys. And peoples alts tend to be sk,,zerker, monk, brusier over pally and guard.. so when u need an alt mt there is a monk! So fix the other class's to make them more fun and desirable! Why would plate tanks that are boring come on here to ask to make other fighters less attractive?
I'm getting tired of people saying if you ignore monks temps they are terrible, imagine removing auto attack from scouts, its like no **** sherlock. The problem is that we actually do have temps. Although if you want to get technical, I'm not sure you can call them temporary anymore seeing you can maintain them permanently. I have yet to see a viable option to replace monk.
They just don't get it. Just like the guy that thinks chaining defensive temps is an excellent game play mechanic. They don't want this game to be fun. And you are right a guard is absolutely more effective as an MT over a monk people are just too slow to get the picture.
But, but we just don't get it!!!! I mean its so hard for a Monk to push a button to survive every 30 sec. I mean its obviously fair that they giving up all that work in button pushing allows them to survive better than any other class. Fix the class than we can talk about if they have any issues.
Well I am glad you see that if you remove monks def temps it would be the same as removing scouts auto attack, meaning they couldn't do their job of tanking, just like scout couldn't do its job of dps'n.. So what are we arguing about here? And plz tell me how I can maintain tsunami permanently. Since you are saying they aren't temps but are permanent buffs now? lol
They are on the beta server atm. If you log in there you can see them, I don't have them on hand to show you.
Blanka, look up the term hyperbole. Rotate, again people can't see the forest for the trees. I'm arguing monks are completely broken because of their temps. Your question illustrates this point perfectly, people complain about the class when it's actually them. It's simple math, you can go sit in Moors and cast your temps in order and never run out. I've already posted it earlier in this thread.
I know what the term means, but it is nice that you finally admit to over exaggerating monks abilities like I have pointed out pretty much every single time you come here and wave your hands screaming "look at me look at me monks are OP...And by the way Im bad" Also plenty of other tank classes can chain their temps as well. For example a guardian who completely blows a monk away as far as chaining temps that give them a crazy amount of strikethrough immunity pretty much close to all the time. But you know if monks were so crazy good your guild wouldn't be as far behind in progression as they are seeing as you have so many brawlers at your disposal you guys should never wipe ever according to you and Duele.
