Zero Apparitionals..

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Toukan, Feb 20, 2023.

  1. Toukan Elder

    I've seen a post or two about this but I don't remember if there was ever a response..
    On Povar last night, <FE> 's first two raids...Shadowhaven, and Deepshade's first raid, The Artist...both resulted in zero apparitionals.
    I'm wondering if the chance for zero is by design (Which, come on, just sucks, especially with the entire way apparitionals have replaced ores) or a bug? The raid chests seemed to contain normal loots, except missing the apparitionals.
  2. Ythera Augur

    There's been a lot of raid rewards in the past that have been 0-1 of per event, such as Last Bloods during DoDh. It seems unlikely that this is a bug, but it does suck for anyone who is a perfectionist and wants to, over the course of the year playing this expansion, get full BiS gear. That type of player will probably feel heavy disappointment at their inability to achieve their ultimate goal.
  3. Syylke_EMarr Augur

    Yes, it's by design.

    Raids and raid loot itemization are designed to slow the progress of the top few guilds (who have extremely consistent rosters). The unfortunate side effect is how it affects the rest of the raiding environment.
    Zunnoab and FYAD like this.
  4. FYAD Elder

    You're right. I would question, why do we "need" to slow people down at all? Those guilds with consistent rosters, they're... well.. consistent, which means consistent all year long, which means they're paying subscriptions all year long. Consistent raiders don't sub for 1-2 months at the start of an expac and then disappear. So I have yet to see the necessity to slow things down because, in doing so, they've made this aspect of the game less fun, which seems like a net negative for the game overall.
    Moege, Ssdar, Toukan and 1 other person like this.
  5. Nightops Augur

    I saw a previous post saying NoS raids currently have 3 separate rolls for apparitional drops. It is possible to get all 3 rolls positive resulting in 3 apparitional drops. Or you can fail all 3 rolls and get zero in the chest.

    I don't see it as a way to -slow- guilds down. But it will change how people bid and what people buy over the course of the expansion. If 90% of your guild buys arms in march, then when arms drop from the raid chest, the dkp bids are going to be small or rot for the rest of the year. Likewise, if raids see an apparitional bracer once every 5 raid chests, then everyone will have them via raid drop and not wait to buy them near the end of their upgrading cycle.

    In other words, not all melee will have new weapons, not all tanks will have shields or pet classes with earrings, etc etc before T3 raids start up.
  6. Zarkdon Augur

    I don't understand everquests long standing desire to keep people from getting loot. Who cares if people have 3 alts raid geared its what keeps you buying/playing the game.
  7. Andarriel Everquest player since 2000

    I wouldnt be sad if they got rid of raiding altogether ;)
  8. minimind The Village Idiot

    If EQ was built to keep people from loot, there wouldn't be players complaining about having 3 raid geared alts. In fact, EQ has been a loot pinata since it changed to using class-customizable molds and ores.

    The fact is that people complained that the ease of acquiring T2/T3 gear made T1 gear irrelevant and a waste (to them). Now that it's changed and best-in-slot raid gear is actually uncommon/rare, everyone who isn't raiding right when lockouts expire is complaining that there's insufficient opportunity to fill out their characters with best-in-slot gear.

    In my experience, you don't need a character decked out in "ore" gear to survive or even excel. Get your melee BIS weapons, rangers BIS bows, tanks BIS shields and then after that, to me, it's all about convenience and min-maxing.

    Can't get that tank mask to drop? Go for the ore.
    Not seeing that pet ear? Go for the ore.
    Can't get the high AC neck, back, or charm? Go for the ores.
    Svann2 likes this.
  9. KushallaFV Using ChatGPT

    No, the argument against T1 gear is why it even exists in the first place. Why do raids need two tiers of gear? It’s the same difficulty of content. It’s a waste of time and players will always view the lesser tier as trash.
    Barraind, FYAD and Syylke_EMarr like this.
  10. Lluianae Elder

    They're fine as catch-up gear for new apps/returnees and for gearing up alts. They're just not desirable for long-term raiders decked out in previous expansion ore gear. Speaking as a returnee who came back at the end of CoV, I invested in huge upgrades for cheap to stop dying as much to raidwides.
  11. Syylke_EMarr Augur

    This is why I think the "ore" idea should be changed to an item that allows a choice of any of the droppable raid pieces, and just do away with the multiple tiers of raid gear.
    KushallaFV likes this.
  12. Lubianx Augur

    I have said this previously in relation to "ore" vs drop on raids.

    They should be pretty much the same with just one or 2 differences.

    A mask ore with a tank template could have high hDex & hAgil whilst a dropped one high hStam.

    A caster 2 hander weapon ore may have a fire proc whilst a drop one could be additional focus.

    A priest weapon made by a druid could have some sort of proc or damage focus whilst the dropped one a mana return and heal proc.

    A ranger bow could have a higher hDex with larger proc whilst the alternative higher hStam with a mana return (rangers always complain about mana).

    The AC and HEM on both options should be the same. It just allows for a little bit of customization (not 100% on the differences, those are just some possibilities)
  13. strongbus Augur

    to me just make the t2 a drop that can make a aug that fits in to a t1 item. that way t1 gear is useful and getting t2 is just icing on the cake.
    Zunnoab likes this.
  14. Abbydog Journeyman

    The part of the discussion that seems to be missing is how this is a change from the previous several expansions. Changing from ore that can make any BiS item to slot specific drops AND adding in the chance (a fairly significant chance to boot) of having none of these items drop is a VERY significant change from previous expacs. These changes are not conducive to keeping high end players engaged so one wonders what the devs are thinking.
    Zunnoab, Ssdar and FYAD like this.
  15. Dalrek_MM Lorekeeper

    We also had raids with 0 apparitions, then next day we get 3 on first raid. I guess it evens out over a longer period. But it really sucks those evenings when you get 0. Feels like you just raided for no reason
    Ssdar and Toukan like this.
  16. Cicelee Augur

    The best chests are when you get two wrists and an apparational wrist. For six raids that night. Every five days. For the past two months.

    Throw in two cloak drops a night, and you feel like you are winning at the game.
  17. Dalrek_MM Lorekeeper

    Getting cloaks is almost worse than getting nothing.

    So far we have gotten:
    Apparitional Amice fastener x2
    Apparitional Arm Armor Lining x1
    Apparitional Belt Buckle x2
    Apparitional Chest Armor Lining x2
    Apparitional Cloak Fastener x1
    Apparitional Earring Clasp x7
    Apparitional Essence of Finesse x4
    Apparitional Essence of Power x2
    Apparitional Feet Armor Lining x1
    Apparitional Head Armor Lining x3
    Apparitional Mask Fastener x1
    Apparitional Necklace Clasp x4
    Apparitional Ring Polishing Cloth x2
    Apparitional Shield Enarmes x2
    Apparitional String Serving x2
    Apparitional Wrist Armor Lining x6

    So its hard to see a pattern yet, except maybe we got more earrings than expected. BP and rogue stabbers were the biggest sellers. Obviously cloak the least sought after and sold cheap.
  18. Stephen51 Augur

    Does "Luck" play a very small part. The stat, not the lady :). We have found that having the person opening the chest in the One Door Opens mission, gives a slightly better chance at getting a cloak/more loot.

    So if the person opening the chest has low luck, could that be partly to blame?
  19. Conq Augur

    Luck definitely plays a part in opening raid chests! Duh. What we do is, we find the player with the most luck stat, he or she or it melee's the chest to 82%. Then he or she ducks. Twice. Then he or she circles the chest while ducking, clockwise, NEVER counterclockwise! Three concentric circles. Then our assigned Master Looter does the /open, he insists on keeping all the plat as payment to /open. We get many cloak fasteners and cloak drops this way. Every ones' alt and their mom's alts has a cloak now. Working as intended...
  20. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    It is "Intentional" In that there are 3 distinct tables with apparitional parts, and none of the tables have a 100% chance. We did adjust table chances so that in the long term, the odds are you will get MORE apparitional drops than you got of the previous equivalent tradeskill drops, but that, yes, there is a chance to get zero drops in a particular raid event.

    I can consider adjusting the chance of a cloak item down since there is a greater desire for the evolving cloak.

    Note. You can sell apparitional items to the vendor, so the cloak item is not zero value, simply much less. And there are bound to be some people uninterested in the evolving item, OR want a stand -in until the evolving item reaches a potential greater than the cloak. So.. I'm not sure we will make the adjustment, but we will at least consider it.