Hey guys, considering picking up my zerker again. I know it's been a while since I played one and the last few times I've tried I sort of fizzled out as a result of garbage sustained dps. Every other dps oriented class seemed to out do us in groups. No obviously I'm not expecting to top wizard group dps (which is ridiculously high (I know cause I have one heh)). But I'd like to be able to keep up with rogues, monks, rangers, mages, etc. Is that possible now days? I've seen a handful of zerk changes recently but I can't quantify how they actually turn out in-game. Thanks
In the group game our sustained is doing well, largely because we can hit Dichotomic Rage every time its up and just use breather between mobs and never run out of endurance. The large skill attack on short duration trash mobs inflates sustained similarly to how large Wizard nukes look great on trash. If you're raiding at all on the Zerker, sustained will continue to be a huge problem between endurance issues and a severe lack of disc uptime compared to our counterparts.
For reference: Dichotomic Rage BER/101 6838end 0s cast60s cooldown Timer 17 Single Hate: -21843 1: Cast: Dichotomic Rage Dichotomic Rage 1 Single Hate: -12734 1: 2H Slash Attack for 12797 with 10000% Accuracy Mod 2: Cast: Dichotomic Bloodsplash 1 Dichotomic Bloodsplash 1 Caster Group Max Hits: 10 Outgoing Hit Successes Hate: -1 1: Increase Chance to Crippling Blow by 90% 2: Increase Chance to Resist Fear Spell by 90% 3: Decrease Damage Shield Taken by 2318 6: Absorb Spell Damage: 75%, Max Per Hit: 56810 7: Absorb Melee Damage: 75%, Max Per Hit: 87324 8: Increase Base Stats by 300
Berserker grouped sustained is lolzy right now, hovering in the 90k range. That's with Arx weapons and a sort of a Bard
I have to admit that my study of this is far from conclusive... To share what little I have observed since tbm launch; Our top zerker(s) seem to be very much on par with wizards. Last night we did lady of life, wither and decay, and then worked on damsel. Zerk and I were less than 1 million damage apart on our full night parse lol.
Zerkers are far from the only class putting up good numbers against group trash. If Dicho Rage has its damage cap removed/fixed, then you might have more of a point.
that really depends on the situation, but the average wizard is still beating the average zerker and you know it.
Abilities really readlly cannot be tuned for a subjective "average". Pickup HA I was in yesterday on my 94 rog (dinged 95 on the final hail ): Combined: Disrupting the Ritual in 1304s, 76795k @58892 | 105Warrior + pets 20673k@(15951 in 1296s) [26.92%] | Balancedwizmerc 18772k@(14982 in 1253s) [24.44%] | 105Shaman + pets 12842k@(9848 in 1304s) [16.72%] | 105Magician + pets 12745k@(10212 in 1248s) [16.6%] | 94Rogue 11763k@(9233 in 1274s) [15.32%] | Clemerc 0k@(0 in 0s) [0%] See if you can figure out how to direct a game based on that
Are we really going to pretend that the majority of level 105 mages in game are putting out 10k sustained dps? Is that really your claim here? I said average, not the worst imaginable.
Lazy players get beat by not-lazy players. Nothing is truer. But you don't get to pretend that Lazy is endemic as a class feature of berserkers to balance around, that you then miraculously overcome. The magician recorded in that parse wasn't using all their abilities, clearly. Turns out she's legit new to high level magicianing and will likely double then quadruple-up output in the next weeks. But your hypothetical and arbitrarily 'average' berserker doesn't get to not-use their abilities and still count as real, any more than my new magician acquaintance.
Your making an assumption, I didnt at any point imply that the average Zerker didnt hit their abilities. However the average Zerker doesn't run around with a Bard 24/7, nor do they always have full raids buffs, nor do they burn glyphs every time they're up, nor any of the other things needed to put up the kind of numbers to beat a Wizard in grp content. I'd like to see a Zerker and Wizard with self buffs only in current content, I know Zerkers aren't putting up near 90k unless you're padding the parse with slow paced pulls so that Dicho refreshes for each mob (or fighting mobs low enough to decap on).
Try again. /GU Combined: in 2184s, 582215k @266582sdps | Berserker + pets 207095k@94824sdps (94954dps in 2181s) [35.57%] | Berserker + pets 203577k@93213sdps (93298dps in 2182s) [34.97%] | Wizard 123748k@56661sdps (56948dps in 2173s) [21.25%] | Enchanter + pets 22891k@10481sdps (11042dps in 2073s) [3.93%] | Bard 17045k@7804sdps (8032dps in 2122s) [2.93%] | Cleric 7860k@3599sdps (3640dps in 2159s) [1.35%] Things to note: 1) The group was killing non-stop for ~36 minutes, 184 mobs in total. So, no slow pace. 2) The mobs were white and yellow primarily, though there was the occasional dark blue they were the exception, not the rule. 3) The Bard was out of the group pulling more than he was in camp, you can see that in their very low dps. I had the benefit of an Enchanter full time for passive effects. 4) The Berserkers had a total of: 4 Bard Epics/FE and 2 Quicktimes. That's only a 1/3rd of the potential adps they could have had. 5) I could have had 3 full burns, but I only had 1, which is also only a 1/3rd of the potential adps I could have had. It isn't a direct comparison of course, but it surely wouldn't have been worth 80 million needed to close the gap, plus tens of millions more to beat them as you suggest. Maybe my Berserker friends are better than you and yours, but I've always given you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you played at the top of your class.
If you're going to quote it, get the full statement. With self buffs, and no adps a Zerker is far below 90k. Further I would imagine they fare worse than a Wizard with self buffs and no adps. And lets not pretend a Wizard with adps in grp can't sustain higher than 90k. In either case the Wizard/Zerker sustaining 90k+ is not the average. For starters, Wizards could put up 70-80k with an ench in group back in TDS, I find it pretty amusing your passing off 56k as even close to a realistic representation of Wizard sustained with an ench in TBM. Looking past your low numbers, you completely fail to mention: 1. Whos boxing if anyone 2. How many times did you get ADPS clicks 3. Was the bard running pure melee songs or pumping your mana with Dichotomic so you could run full burn 4. Was the group AEing 5. Given there is no tank on the parse are we to assume the Zerkers are tanking? Which likely implies full raid gear/weapon. I keep saying that the average Zerker will likely lose to the average Wizard, and you keep bringing up this instance of a raid geared Zerker with adps (likely raid buffage as well) being able to beat you while you admittedly didn't use your abilities to the fullest. I'm not sure what your example proves other than you know well-geared Zerkers that know how to the play the class at the higher end of its potential. It's pretty irrelevant in regards to my statement, and proves nothing balance wise.
1) Wizards have been nerfed multiple times since TDS, especially our primary burn disc which was gutted and our rain, which was nerfed along with the rest of them. Several other abilities that worked on procs now have restrictions to prevent them from doing so. 2) No one was boxing. I thought what would be assumed unless otherwise stated. 3) I believe it was all melee but I could be wrong. As I said, the Bard wasn't in camp much for it to matter either way. 4) No. If multiples were pulled the Bard mezzed. 5) It was a toss up between who was tanking. I tanked quite a bit myself, which did play a part in reducing my personal dps as well because the interrupt code is horrible. You said average, I didn't. But you're just being disingenuous to say that either since the "average" Wizard also does far less than you are suggesting. "Average" Wizards have 40k less mana than I do, don't have raid focii or nearly as many clickies or AAs to glyph, would certainly have died if they took aggro so they have to hold back, and are in the 25k-ish to 35k-ish range on the high end. "Average" players of all classes do poorly and even the idea of what constitutes an "average" player is entirely arbitrary which is why they are awful to use as a basis for comparison and you know it.
The Spell Crit Dmg stacking change was nothing short of massive for Wizards. Even with the nerfs you took the class is a powerhouse and continues to do perform incredibly well in both raids and groups. You did not lose 20k sustained from TDS, unless you are specifically comparing to the duration of time when Haze was completely broken. After Haze was nerfed, you were still plenty capable of 75k sustained in groups, and a powerhouse on raids. If no one was boxing I find it strange that the Enchanter was only able to do 22mil dmg, especially considering the Bard was able to do 17mil while according to you being mostly out of camp. And the Enchanter wasnt performing CC as you said the Bard was mezzing, doesnt exactly seem like a very active Enchanter. I would be curious as to how much adps they provided you, were they afk at all? Did they keep MR up at all times, IoG/Haze/3rd spire on cooldown? If the Zerkers were tanking at all, they on the other hand would benefit from that. Obviously you have regular added riposte dps, then because Zerker have skill proc on Frenzy and Frenzy on riposte theres added DD dps. Basically the deck was stacked in their favor and you completely cherry picked the scenario. I haven't once suggested a figure at what the average Wizard is capable of. What I have said is that the average Zerker is not capable of 90k sustained, and that a Wizard with an Enchanter should be capable of far higher than 56k. I dont think most Wizards have an Enchanter at all times, but since you are insistent on using your anecdotal parse for the purposes of this discussion I was compelled to comment on the realism of your numbers. I dont think your an average Wizard either, but since you are comparing to above average Zerkers you should better represent what you are capable of as an above average Wizard.
