WTB Evict Option for Guild Neighborhoods

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Allayna, Feb 27, 2018.

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  1. Liljit Augur

    Since this thread was linked back to the dev team in the petition, I'd like to see a for/against vote.
    MasterMagnus likes this.
  2. segap Augur

    The one thing I've gotten from this thread.... who's player studio items to never buy.
    Caell likes this.
  3. Liljit Augur

    Lol #boycottmastermagnus
    MasterMagnus likes this.
  4. Eanelder Augur

    This is likely the most arrogant thing I've heard you say in this thread.

    ar·ro·gant
    adjective

    1. having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.


    I'm not sure how I missed your solution but here's my thoughts (I apologize now if i misread/misunderstood anything):



    So your effectively suggesting "splitting" a zone? Creating 2 zones from the 1 original guild zone, one that remains a guild zone (I assume keeping the original name), the other becomes a public zone (being granted a random zone name)?

    And your expecting guilds with multiple zones to do this for each of their zones? So for example the Guild Leader from MS, would do this on each of their zones, creating 4 new public zones with each potentially only housing 1 - X remaining non guild plots? Of course this option would also be available to every other guild on the server who wanted to clean house, meaning 20? 100? 1000? new mostly empty guild neighborhoods?

    As an added incentive to bloat the available neighborhoods, your guild members get the bonus of the availability of 3 new plots ? Heck sign me up, I'll definitely setup a an alt guild for this and contribute to that daybreak revenue stream.

    You suggest this should only be available once per neighborhood, which I assume you think would allow a guild to put new guild policy in place to prevent this from happening again? Unfortunately you haven't suggested anything that fixes the root cause, and with no way to enforce those policies, it WILL happen again; this time with no recourse. Is the solution to then keep buying new zones via Writs?

    You also suggest minimal cost for this Neighborhood Update. However plot ownership limited to guild members was promised at the time of purchase. Personally I don't appreciate buying add-ons to continue to use services I already paid for.

    I'm sorry, but your idea has way to many flaws to be a viable solution. I would really like to provide some more constructive criticism, but the foundation of the idea is quite flawed.
    Niskin and Caell like this.
  5. Ofearl Slayer of all things Stupid

    ... #crickets....
  6. Tornicade_IV Augur



    evicting and sending people stuff through the game mail is certainly not the solution not when they have unlimited plot time or paid time for the plot.

    some of these people or on temporary breaks and have been removed from their guild while they were out. that's the guild discretion.

    someof the people that would or could we be evicted actually paid for the neighbourhoods they are being evicted from.

    do they get their db cash back? do they get to take it with them ?

    the fact is no every guild is ran like machin shin nor should they be.

    There is only one viable solution.. allow these properties to be moved to non guild neighborhoods at the same plot address they were before for whatever time they are paid for.

    Why because in the majority of cases you have paying customers who have purchased DB items

    automatically removing people who aren't in the guild isn't feasible. there are many guilds who have no problem with these people maintaining their housing on their properties.

    not every single guild does the guild leader supply the neighborhoods or even the player hall

    The 90 day sign in guidelines didn't work. it created problems so it was removed.

    Its funny to ee guilds who members go around these boards telling people that there is no easy button and chiding anyone that doesn't suit their agenda suddenly post a thread looking for an easy button to fix what is essentially an in game land management problem.

    the point is these people were in the guild and they purchased a plot from the game bank available due to that affiliation.

    but lets say they did allow the guild leaders to have an evict button. I would recommend that if someone was evicted from a writ that they purchased. that neighborhood writ goes back to the inventory to use wherever they like.

    All guild halls and player houses are set up to allow non guild members as much access as the owner wants to provide
    the system was intended to be a cooperative one


    on the subtopic of guild management.

    if you cant set ground rules for the remaining spaces you have or create penalties for players not following guild rules. then that's a you problem not a dev problem.

    cut off their access to the guild hall, dock dkp, don't let them use their anchors in the hall etc

    if something as simple as letting members know when they can purchase property in the guild neighborhood or how many properties they have then . your probably not gonna be a GL for too long

    as far as the people who have left for other guilds you if you have good relations with their leadership. you can see if that guild will help with the problem.. such as guild access , anchor use or dkp problems.

    as far as alts. some guilds don't even allow alts in the guild. guilds might allow these toons to have anchors and such but if they aren't raiding they aren't really needed on the roster.

    I wouldn't mind seeing a real estate option added to guild permissions. They already have guild plot buy and sell which is goofy cause your only allowed one plot to begin with. yet there is no option for real estate buy and sell for the neighborhood plots.


    but instead of allowing discussion its evict button or no evict button.


    no easy button for what is essentially a guild management issue .

    There is a lot of changes that need to made to the current housing system. an expansion related revamp would be ice.. but an evict button runs into problems whether you guys want to consider them problems or not.


    .
  7. Liljit Augur


    Few things.

    Capitalization, punctuation, and grammar....

    Next:

    Setting rules about plot management does nothing without an ability to enforce them.

    This has been said ad nauseam, kinda the whole point of the thread.

    No legit guild would allow the guild leader access to every single members items, that's a work around for your alt guild, not for a group of real people.
    Bobsmith, Felicite and Caell like this.
  8. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    Wow that's all you've got?

    Real simple children.

    Machin Shin is asking to Evict the rightful owner of a plot, because they didn't realize that's how it worked until now.

    Your hubris in thinking that individual guild leaders convenience should supersede an official owners rights, is completely wrong.

    I get why you think it. You bought the Writ, you thought you knew how it worked, rightfully based on the description and neighborhood contract.

    When you finally all realized your mistake, you thought. "Hmm I need to evict them, hmmm I need an evict button".

    Then Allayna posts this thread, not any of you who are championing this stupidity.

    You had a little idea and thought, "I'm brilliant" the best solution is an evict button!

    And only then do you come, thinking anybody cares that you're mister awesome 'real guild'.

    Evicting a rightful owner is wrong, for your convenience or any other reason. Because they are the rightful owner not you. Wishes and fishes are should ofs, and could ofs, no matter how you wish you were the owner like you're 'supposed' to be, you are not.

    I've been a participant on SOE forums where we all THEORY CRAFTED together a solution, without fighting.

    None of what you members of Machin Shin and other guild leaders are doing in this thread has taken the form of a well intention-ed discussion.

    You have decided on Evict Button, created a thread with the wonderful 'dev attention getting' title of WTB Evict Option. You might as well have said MY BRILLIANT IDEA DBG NEEDS TO IMPLEMENT RIGHT NOW!

    That's not a well thought out attempt to achieve something better for everyone.

    And when anyone proposed a solution that involved NOT EVICTING. You would have none of it.

    It didn't matter that you would get what you claim you want and nobody would be evicted, you didn't like it.

    Because let's be clear, you want to evict people period. You're not asking to manage your 'real guild', when that was offered in a way that didn't evict people, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE IT.

    When a solution that gives you what you want in every detail but does not evict people is not acceptable to you....
    it's obvious Machin Shin is trying to GRIEF these people because you think they griefed you first.

    GOOD F'N LUCK YOU SELF ENTITLED JERKS.

    I stand by every word I've said, and I'd love for any adult dev to come in here, read it all and think "yeah evict button, perfectly reasonable, make it so".:rolleyes:
  9. Lianeb Augur

    But you're ok with petitions to evict?

    Circular logic i can come back to points also
  10. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh


    YEP because DBG decides.

    They decide to DENY that request as Maedhros noted

    He hasn't had the guts to explain why we has denied.

    But the implication is clear. Even though he thought he had a right to evict, he did not.

    Because DBG will make unbiased decisions which you all are clearly incapable of making. Plus they have the ultimate word and you'll have to abide by it.

    Or, you know, start a big whine thread over it when you don't like the response, or lack therof, you got.
  11. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    [IMG]

    Take a breath, google circular logic, read until you understand the definition. Take another breath and realize... when you keep using it wrong it just proves you have no point.

    Again, this is the best you can do?

    Luckily for me DBG devs are adults who understand when children point and say 'circular logic' they are saying, "my little brain doesn't understand".
  12. Lianeb Augur

    329 posts made to this thread
    109 made by one person

    I have to ask myself
    Who is whining?
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  13. Lianeb Augur

    Circular reasoning is when you attempt to make an argument by beginning with an assumption that what you are trying to prove is already true. In your premise, you already accept the truth of the claim you are attempting to make. It sounds complicated, but it is easily understood with some real-world examples.

    Circular reasoning may sound convincing, but consider who will most likely be convinced by a circular argument. Those who already accept the argument as true are more likely to be further convinced. This is because they already believe the assumption that is stated.
    Examples of Circular Reasoning:
    The Bible is true, so you should not doubt the Word of God.

    This argument rests on your prior acceptance of the Bible as truth.

    Women should be able to choose to terminate a pregnancy, so I need a hug should be legal.

    This argument says I need a hug should be legal because women have the right to an I need a hug.

    I deserve to have a later curfew, so you should let me stay out until 10pm!

    This argument says the person should stay out until 10pm because he/she deserves a later curfew.

    You have to invite Jenna to your party because it would not be nice not to invite Jenna.

    You have to save enough money to pay your bills each month because bills have to be paid.

    It should be okay to destroy property when you are angry because angry people destroy things.

    It is not ok to evict people from Everquest guild neighborhoods because there is no evict button
  14. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh


    DBG will be the final full and only entity to Evict plots.

    No individual, on behalf of a guild or any other 'entity', will Evict other individuals.

    Evictions ARE possible, ONLY by DBG, at THEIR SOLE DISCRETION.

    Get it?
  15. Lianeb Augur

    So says you.
    Can you be done now?
    MasterMagnus likes this.
  16. Tornicade_IV Augur



    I don't have an Alt guild. its a Community guild with a lot of returning players and players who do not raid.
    Also it appears that you do not know how permissions works
    my suggestion for a buy sell real estate options could be set by rank. its already in the game regarding guild plots and it simply means that the guild manager would decide what ranks are and are not allowed to purchase plots.
    2nd restricting or allow access to guild amenities is already in the game and its a tool that leaders may use similar to the the squelch for guild chat.
    3rd a few of my suggestion I didn't come up with. they are used and implemented by a few big 12 guilds and mid tier raiding guilds. You say these are real people yet your saying its unreasonable to have an expectation or them to be treated like real people. what is being requested is a button so people don't need to be treated like real people.



    so lets simplify
    Evict option for retired layers and players who have moved on to another guild.
    -Removed players from guilds should not be evicted. if there was a resolution it would involve moving their plot to a non guild neighborhood of the same address not an eviction where all their stuff is packed up and sent

    Land management for the guild.

    The guild manages a lot of things. DKP, tradeskill drops from raids, loot distribution, setting raid requirements, requiring people to be flagged for certain things. Guild bank items

    people can be unreasonable or unruly in all those aspects.

    restrictions like only allowing members only one plot or not allowing trilals or new guys to enter the guild are easily met by setting expectations. Raid guild especially have the advantage of having forums to outline these guide lines.

    I have suggested multiple options but they are just that options. if you don't like an option... use another one but they are there all the same

    you act like the guilds are powerless to enforce such rules when that is a crock.
    If people are using housing they are probably using anchors or guild portals etc. not everything has to be do this way or leave guild.

    Guild leaders do control what access players have to guild hall amenities. from removing and placing items to interacting with items to whether a members can access the hall at all or even speak in guild chat.

    not using these tools to make it advantageous for the person being unruly or not following the rules is failed guild management and these guilds shouldn't be rewarded with an ez button that evicts people from their plots and sends their stuff to them in crates.
    once again cooperation

    The people who changed guilds aren't gonna move their stuff unless there are consequences. perhaps the other guilds have the same issue with people changing guilds and not moving their stuff.. if that person is still raiding. some diplomacy might resolve the issue. no different than setting up a rotation on static mobs back in the day.

    Either way no evict options or move plot option is gonna be here tomorrow..
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  17. Ofearl Slayer of all things Stupid

    How do you propose you manage a plot when you set permisson to guild rank with appropriate rights to buy a plot then they decide to quit the game. Now 2 years later, they still havent logged in? Or you set it to max 120 days escrow, then they poof and never log in...

    Who are you to restrict the rights of the players and decide what house, how many weeks of escrow, what level they are in game to buy a plot!? Is this North Korea now! Are you a dicktater of your guild!? Get over yourself, ALL guilds manage their guild in a manner best suited for that guild and thier players.

    And the option to make a whole new free plot market zone from another writ is about as stupid as covering yourself in honey and laying naked in an ant pile.
    Caell likes this.
  18. Lianeb Augur

    Just so we are on the same page
    Your guild management solution is to grief active players in your guild and attempt to grief them using the leadership of their new guild if they have moved on to enforce your guilds policy? So you really think another guild is going to help you with that? That’s kind of cute.

    I anxiously await how think we should handle those that have not logged in in over a year. Should we send harassing emails or text messages?

    I fail to see how this would more appealing to someone than receiving 2 parcels escrow and an eviction crate
  19. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    Ok how about this one...

    -Limit Escrow- (for new neighborhoods going forward)

    -When you set up the neighborhood you set a Global Escrow Time Limit on all plots.

    -You can go and click individual plots to change their Plot Escrow Time Limit.

    -You can change the limits over time, but you can't take time out of escrow if you aren't the owner, and you can't set the limit lower than what they already have in.

    -Set a range of 30 day increments up to a year, and include the highest and DEFAULT setting as Unlimited. (options 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Unlimited-default)

    This way, even if they place an Unlimited house, and pay no money into escrow, the plot will expire and auto-evict at the time which was agreed upon by both parties at time of purchase.

    And here's the part you won't like because you don't get to grief those plots out of your control that currently exist.

    -ALL existing plots are 'grandfathered' in with Unlimited as Escrow Limit, and ALL CURRENT ESCROW REMAINS UP TO AND INCLUDING UNLIMITED.

    -The only way you can get an existing plot deleted that is unlimited or paid for a long future period, is to petition and abide by DBGs decision to grant, deny, or ignore your request.

    DBG will be the final full and only entity to Evict plots by automated or manual means.

    No individual, on behalf of a guild or any other 'entity', will Evict other individuals.

    Evictions ARE possible, ONLY by DBG, at THEIR SOLE DISCRETION.
  20. Ofearl Slayer of all things Stupid

    You know, I feel as if I bought a house in a nice neighborhood that was gated, then moved... I would not be allowed to to keep my windowless van with free candy written on the side of it inside said gated community... i think said management would evict/tow/get rid of said junk that doesn’t belong.

    Still think an evict option is easier than everything else. There does need to be some parameters it needs to go through to be available to guild management. After all if I can place an item in the guild hall, and any officer/leader can parcel it back to me, I see zero difference in that and a house on a plot. Mail that crap back and remaining escrow.. easy-peasy!
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