Wrath of the Wild...why do you keep doing this to us.

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Tweak, Oct 9, 2018.

  1. Tweak Journeyman

    I get it Daybreak, Zek is not at the top of your priority list. You dont have to keep proving it to me in the form of making things worse for us. Did you really need to make it so melee are all but negated in pvp?

    With the latest change to Wrath of Wild you can now round yourself with something as simple as a single Daggergash usage against someone with this buff. 10 charges @60k I believe for 110's and these DS's are being cast on any pvp toons in range to the buffs. Auto attack will kill you in the blink of an eye coming into contact with this DS. Its literally impossible for melee to attack others unless they do a full dispell..and thats just rediculous.

    Please fix this mechanic or even better let the last 25 people on Zek have free transfers for all their accounts if you have no desire to maintain the server.
  2. NameAlreadyInUse Augur

    Did you just whine about not being able to gank people without looking at their buffs first?

    Zek isn't a server they do any development for. Zek is a server they keep open, much like a bug zapper, to attract people that can't get along with others.
  3. Astral64 Augur

    To answer your question: DBG didn't give a single thought to how it or anything else would affect pvp.

    I'm sorry you can't round people without checking and/or dispelling their buffs first. Bless your heart.
    Maedhros likes this.
  4. Tweak Journeyman

    You aren't checking peoples buffs in pvp lol. This is about putting all mellee at an extreme disadvantage in pvp verse every other class. If you think taking the time to fully dispell someone in pvp while they chain cast on you is anywhere near how things are supposed to work..I dont really know what to tell you lol. This isnt 1999 and dispelling a full buff window or being a lowbie dying from a single blade swipe is beyond rediculous.

    As for saying Zek isnt a server they do any development for..They fixed buildings that were being exploited in pvp. They have turned instances blue so AE's arent rounding guildies in raids and they made it so you cant use beza to gate when you are stunned in pvp.

    As much as a lot of you distain the idea of them spending any amount of time on Zek, its a server that exists provided by DB. Get over it.This mechanic makes no sense. Not for PVE or PVP. Just change it back.
  5. Beimeith Augur

    That sounds exactly like how PvP *should* work, actually.
  6. Karhar Augur

    Just forced a rogue to duel me by attacking him, he fell over so quickly, made him do it again after i res'd him! About died laughing.
    Tweak likes this.
  7. Astral64 Augur

    Well that's embarrassing. For you.

  8. Tweak Journeyman

    I can see it now...

    Level 85 warrior enters zone and gets attacked by caster.
    Level 85 warrior casts...Furious rabbit..to see if it triggers a DS LOL. Upon finding his foe does in fact have a DS the warrior then begins to cast clicky dispells for the next minute while catching dots and dd's from his opponent. Get real guys. Its not like buffs are visible.
  9. Gnomereaper Augur

    I'm personally supportive of Zek if it remains open, it's a shame what happened to a once great server. There were some wonderful people on there that I would speak to in serverwide channels.
  10. eqzekisdead Augur

    Here is another fun fact, wrath of the wild will land on lvl1 characters.
  11. Sliders Journeyman

    With all due respect to the bigger names in here, especially my BFF Beimieth, you kind of need to accept that Zek is a different world, and your knowledge pool often will not apply to it. IMO Tweak is more correct on this than you'd think. Much more.

    On Zek, when you target someone, you can't see their buffs unless you are somehow grouped. They aren't going to group with you. So it's not a matter of "I'll just sneak up to this guy with shroud of stealth, completely invisible, and look at all of their buffs".

    If people just wandered aloof exp'ing, you could tell when a mob hit the tank if the tank had no DS on, and use a rogue to kill the tank. I get how you could view things from that perspective, but the thing is, people on zek at 110 often are just trying to pvp. Not exp. No mobs really get involved. If a person gets trained, they'll probably just gate. The premise of that a rogue can turn things to their advantage in this fashion is much harder when the other side is actively expecting everything.

    It's not as if a rogue is completely worthless with this sort of reverse one shot kill existing. They could still do a few things, but let's be fair here. That's a pretty strong nerf.

    In the end, if they do anything, I hope it's more holistic than just adjusting the ds situation, but it sounds like a lot when I put it that way. Heck, maybe make it so that the classes with the most kills do the least damage, at least then everyone would get a shot at some point, and the people that box the flavor of the week will have a lot more work to do.
    Tweak likes this.
  12. Beimeith Augur

    Well I'm glad I made a friend?

    Also I said that's how PvP *should* work, not whether it currently does in EQ.
    Tweak likes this.
  13. Astral64 Augur

    I played on zek for a few years, I'm aware.

    The fact is there are several ways around this. Like I mentioned, you can dispel or check for the DS in other ways before you unload.

    Rogues having to use more strategy is a good thing. The ability to round people they've had for a decade was by no means balanced. This was just one of the many reasons pvp is so unpopular in this game. Changes like this are a good thing if you want more people on zek. However unintentional it may have been on the Devs part.

    You act as though you're entitled to one shot other players in PVP and whining about balance when you kill yourself on a dispellable, ten charge DS. So I had a laugh.
    Incredible likes this.
  14. Tweak Journeyman

    It doesn't matter if you can test for it or not. You are looking at this from someone attacking only. What is a warrior supposed to do when he is attacked by a class that can range them down with spells and are immune to pvp? The only one who keeps bringing up one shot ganking...is you. If you're idea of fair pvp is a war using the limited dispel clickies out there to dispell a full buff window while being attacked the entire time by the other player....maybe those few years of playing on Zek didnt teach you much about pvp.
  15. Sliders Journeyman

    I don't mean to yank anyone around here. I really do think Beimeith is a great guy. I remember when I was having issues with gamparse and I brought them up like they were a bug, and I just had to update gamparse. I was being an idiot, and he showed the slightly bothered but stable patience of mountain, even dwarving that time at 7 eleven when I was 14 and just couldn't decide what flavor of slurpee I wanted.

    And if you were on Zek for a while I think that's fantastic Astral. I hope you had fun. The way I see it, it's these people's time now. I haven't been on Zek in a while. But when I left, I remember SEVERAL classes having a one shot kill move. It wasn't just rogues. I think rogues were pretty egregious with the ae rampage and all. Same can be said for berserkers and monks, but shroud of stealth can really add that extra edge to it. It seemed like the most common class to try to rampage groups with was a rogue.

    I know that at the high end of pvp, people don't want to give away their secrets, and it can really be an interesting place in large part because of that. I fought many people that I thought might have something interesting they'd do if they were really backed into a corner enough times in the right situations. I learned a lot. I doubt I know everything though.

    But imagine that you're trying to dispell a guy or even just test to see if he has a damage shield, and then this happens.....

    As an sk you could kill him probably hours before he'd be able to dispell wrath of the wild as a rogue, due to his lack of an abashi or other truly powerful random slot dispell. Even with an abashi, that's a rough situation. If you get wrath of the wild, guess what happens next? They probably just gate.Why have a risky confrontation when you could just come back in 5 minutes and have a winning confrontation?

    Off the top of my head, beastlord, wizard, ranger, necromancers, magicians, and enchanters are 6 classes that could kill you without meleeing in a way that would trigger the shield in easily under 6 seconds. I guess also SK's. Probably Druids too. It's good for classes to have a soft but firm advantage over other classes, especially when those other classes have such strong advantages as rogues, but this is sort of looking closer to a lock than an advantage if it is used properly. And yes, I played back when rogues had the bugged gyrospire and SoS and they'd just burn you out of nowhere and if they couldn't kill you with their initial attack, they'd just gate. But I don't want to carry that frustration forward in a way that hurts the future. Gyrospire is fixed, you can't gate while stunned. There are measures going the other way now.

    Please understand that I'm saying this in jest, but it sounds like you think it would go like this, due to the only possible answer the devs can give the rogues in this unbelievable arms race: the ability to stop time.

    But that's not really in the game yet. Instead, the guy is going to murder him while he's casting a 2 slot dispell that usually hits the first 2 slots, plraying for a twincast, praying that it skips the first 4 buffs that are probably just instantly recastable junk buffs, and he's trying to get lucky on a guy with 40 buffs, and it's going to be like this.

    Look, I don't like the one shot world very much, but in the last stuff I have seen in pvp, it's pretty fast paced at this point.

    I just think that being fair, if THAT is the environment, it's gonna be a bit rough if you're expecting a guy to just sit there clicking dispell potions, and this guy could have killed him by the time he's 1/3 done with the first dispell pot via harm touch leech touch etc.

    If I ran the world here, I'd say to make wrath of the wild a song instead of a buff, but that would mess with regular servers, so it's probably a bad idea. For pvp though it would do a lot of things. The druid would have to be a participant instead of a buff bot to a higher degree. You couldn't just buff all of your toons in the hall with it to make it a constant thing wherever you go to pvp. I think the whole idea is a bit out there, but it would be neat if the support classes had a real role as a support class, and currently that role is in the guild hall most of the time due to the power of current dps.

    Anyways, those are just the thoughts of another person. I'd say the people actually on the server's feedback and input should be much higher of a concern on the subject than my own. It affects them the most.

    Good luck out there, and good night. I wish you all the best.
  16. MoveFastRZ Augur

    This is a debate? Astral, no offense, but I find it very difficult to believe you ever played on Zek in a way that put you in the PvP mix. It's PvP 101 to know how to protect your buffs from being dispelled. Only a couple classes/items can break through and take away the one buff the targeted player is trying to protect.

    The handful of people who still play on Zek are very resilient. DPS has been out of proportion for PvP for a long time now, but folks still find workarounds--they get very good at honing the way they time their DA clicks, etc. Something like this just adds another very heavy burden for a large chunk of an admittedly small pool of players to get through.

    It's not rocket science. As somebody already pointed out, drastically decreasing the duration of the buff on Zek would at least ensure that a druid has to present in the group to derive its full benefit.
    Tweak likes this.
  17. Tweak Journeyman

    This is what happens when people who have zero clue on how Zek works try to bash on it. Look at their buffs and dispell them lol...best stuff I've seen in a while. This is a legit concern for those playing on Zek but hey, if you ever want to come to Zek and try to dispel people and see how it goes..you're more than welcome.
  18. Sheex Augur

    There really needs to be an auto reply bot with a “Willie ears ya” meme every time there’s a Zek post about a mechanic change that impacts the server differently than everywhere else.
  19. Tatanka Augur

    OT (well, back to the original topic, I guess):

    Many thanks to the OP for this thread. I was unaware of the August changes to WotW. Makes me want to return to EQ and play my druid again (Live, not Zek). Prior to this, WotW was just something you threw on a multi-cast hotkey, but it was pretty worthless. Now it's actually something to be happy about :)

  20. Fanikben New Member

    This thread makes me laugh. This guy primarily pvps on 2 classes: SK and Rogue. Both of which he basically has insta kill abilities. And now those insta kill abilities are threatened with insta death so we need a "fix". Too funny. This should be archived with all the other whines and moans throughout the years about SK DT's, rogue dps, etc. etc. When you killed that GM last night before he tested the DS, did you make sure to hold back so he wouldn't see how easy it was for an SK to get a kill or did you just pop him? We both know with just your blades attack not even popping any of your 3 DT's you can round someone! I'm in tears!

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