Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by IblisTheMage, Jul 3, 2018.
Let's just get rid of DoTs and make Necros a Disease/Poison DD version of Wizards.
Big HP amounts alone just turns the game into Luclin trash tedium all over again. It's an inelegant solution.
However, the game getting away from twitchy combat to a more traditional EQ tactical style would be great to see. However, I am not sure this is very easily done simply because any change that equals less XP per hour will be seen as a nerf in favor of tedium (or XP pot sales).
Now, new zones could have the mob HP, skills/abilities and resists balanced with the ZEM to be at least as good as everywhere else --though in truth if it wasn't noticeably better most wouldn't go there. Then there is the balance question as balancing said XP rate to be obtainable for a mid-tier group geared group means that same zone becomes an ultra-hotzone for an elite group.
With the caveat that some/much of the playerbase doesn't like healer mobs, was upset by the "gimmicky" GoD and OoW mobs with powerful effects/abilities on group level content, etc. so you could put a lot of effort into something that just causes more complaints.
Hoboy. Look what you've done, Ibis. You've brought the TLP fools over here with your ridiculous thread. Somebody please fetch a rolled up newspaper.
(Ibis is a species of bird... )
Things got a bit out of hand...
Things currently live long enough as a warrior I have to think about using buttons or not using buttons.
That seems a pretty decent balance point.
Dead things stop hitting me, so I'm happy with low hp's. But I can tank a single forever, high hp doesn't bother me.
I think the balance is good currently.
If they really want to increase the challenge, they could let the mobs fight the way their class/archetype dictates: Caster mobs nukes harder(but not as often, and are interruptable/stunnable) and rarely deals melee dmg, priest mobs heals their comrades, debuffer-mobs cast short(cureable/dispellable) debuffs on players etc... Maybe isolate it to endgame zones or something in order to not piss of everyone.
I get sad when a see mobs called something like "high pyromancer of the arcane order", engage me with wimpy melee attacks. The strat should be, to watch for long spell casting animations and hit them with well timed stuns/interrupts...or something...
It is important that every player have tools to mitigate these mobs in a fair an balanced way, the goal should be variety not punishment of certain narrow player classes.
Generally I think the pacing in modern EQ is fine as it is.
As a shaman, every mob that I pull or is pulled into a camp gets slow/malo. That adds 4 debuffs. Not sure on other classes. I suppose that some minimal-impact buffs aren't cast in the group game, but again, that's not a bad thing. Those debuffs' benefits are better suited/intended for named and the raid game.
I've can't remember the last time I was in an actual group that didn't have a healer. Even with my full ROS diamond geared SK tanking, I wouldn't want to not have a healer. I suppose if your idea of grouping is killing one mob at a time, with a break inbetween it could be plausible. But then if you get a bad pull or a nasty dot/debuff on you, you're dead and the group wipes. Healers allow for consistent pulling with 1-2 in camp(or more for raid-geared players) at all times, with no downtime. That's efficient grouping.
You can easily get the AA version of malo/slow in - but what impact does it have when the mobs dead 15 seconds later?
The majority of content in this game is designed for molo - what is the problem if some of it requires a REAL group?
2 of the best xp zone in ros ( sathir and howling stone ) got many undead, all class can do good dps there, cleric as well, , only shaman in any zone with mobs dying fast enough get crappy dps ,....
we got a fire nuke at level one then nothing after , cold dd is weak, , same for the crappy poison dd ,
level 107 mawmun's bite is decent but with a recast of 12 sec we can only nuke once most of the time,
so shm could get a little boost in the group game, with faster recast for our dd's or a little higher dd damage, or specially boost a little our swift dot's ( could still have swift dot's doing less damage with raid mobs like it was several years ago ),
High HP mobs benefit 24/7 bot groups who have all the time in the world because they are automated.
One of the other posters mentioned this, but doing a blanket increase to HP requires significantly more tweaks than a corresponding increase to EXP. There are many reasons to clear content and EXP is just one of them. For someone with all their relevant AAs making their way through a dungeon to complete a heroic adventure or progression, increasing mob HP slows the process down with no side benefit. Mob density would need to be cut in half if HP values are doubled, but then that takes away from the need for CC classes. Also, do you double the frequency at which loot is dropped? Require half as many kills as normal for kill quests? The “balance” considerations are considerable.
Personally, I’d be just as happy if mobs in the next expansion had twice as many HP but the zones, quests, loot, etc. were designed to account for the change. A retroactive change to old content would leave me much less pleased.
thats a insane suggestion, I'm barley hanging on playing the game as it is due to mobs having a massive amount of hit points already. It takes me 3-5 minutes to kill mobs as it is. I don't box, haven't had a group for 3 weeks and not for lack of looking, but because of all the people ran off due to that kind of crap. You boxers use 3rd party programs are not actually playing the game, your program is. Game is boring to you because to kill to fast? give me a break, try playing a class from scratch without boxing or giving yourself and gear or money. See how horrible it can be cause you have solo most of the stuff you do without any help because people are multi boxing and cant spare the time of day to actually group with others.
I could pull a Brohg-level troll and link the effects from the 4 debuffs, but I won't.
The impact is more efficient groups. I usually am a puller in groups, so I pull with aa malo, and immediately follow with slow, so that a mob is debuffed before it hits the camp. It may take 15s to kill the mob, but in a group that is chain pulling with 2-3 in camp at all times, it can be 30+s that the mob is beating on the tank and having that slow/cripple helps as does the malo so the other debuffers can land theirs or dotters do their thing.
Those debuffs add just as much as people using Banestrike. Or any of the other tiny min/max things that good players do like use slot 3s, or pet toys. It all adds up and helps overall efficiency.
Seriously? How many shamans are pulling in a real group? I do not know of any... even if so, I don’t believe you will see any difference outside of error assuming a group geared tank with sufficient AAs.
Mobs with more HPs DOES NOT IMPACT botters unless drop rate of crafting/rares is adjusted.
Increasing the HPs of mobs in new expansion impacts the expansion adoption rate. RoS already proved that.
Which server are you on, buddy? If you are on AB, we can go kill stuff...
Something needs ro be done with current content prior to any new content. More HPs tends to translate into less cash loot and sometimes less experience. So when the content drops, everyone goes back to the old content until something gets nerfed
Shaman: I could cast malo, but this mob will be dead in 15 seconds, so meh. better just spam single target heals on the warrior.
Enchanter: I could proc synergy, but this mob will be dead in 15 seconds, i'll just pretend to cast a spell and interrupt it with duck to save mana
Zerker: I'd hit dicho, but this mob will be dead in 15 seconds, ill save it for the next one! they removed the hitcap on my dicho, so i one-shot everything now. lolowned.
Warrior: I'll save shield topple until the next mob, this one will be dead in 15 seconds. i'll need the extra aggro for when the Enchanter ***** up the next pull and brings 40 then dies in camp
Bard: I'd hit fierce eye, but this mob will be dead in 15 seconds and frankly, I'm too good for this group anyway
Wizard: I'd cast a nuke, but I'm waiting for Enchanter synergy to proc. I am a greedy dark elf wizard and this enchanter is my ADPS slave. #justwizardthings
60 seconds later, mob still alive
Shaman: Shoot, I should have casted malo.
*hint hint shamans*
on topic: give us one crazy difficult zone each expansion. tie no "achievement" progression to the zone but put some high-level group gear in there that outpaces the rest of the group gear in the expansion. Maybe some slick augs or cool clickies, a la VP. Except make it way, way more difficult than VP. I can solo in that zone. Give me something that actually requires a full group, plz and ty. I want my anus to be brutalized at the tiniest misstep.
Leave the rest alone so more casual players have something to enjoy, too.
Just curious what you meant by hitcap here. Spell data says they still have 10 max hits on dicho.
max melee hit has been 750k damage for a long time. The patch notes indicate that's changing to 6M. The dicho hits are highly unlikely to use that new cap space in a large way, since the ability was built to the previous spec, but still at those times it capped out before it will now actually deal the extra bit by which it exceeded the cap.
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