Wondering people's perspective on this.

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Bronut, May 7, 2020.

  1. Bronut Augur

    People play Everquest for a variety of reasons.

    Sometimes people play for the collection side of the game (it is a collection game first and foremost.)
    another example is Tradeskillers, some like TS best, others are only there to TS, its rare, but i have met sets of players that only kill things to further their tradeskill endeavor

    My motivation is efficiency. I'm from the performance camp.

    I like to Talk start, How to find the most efficient approach to things.
    I like to understand all of it. lets take a cleric for example. How are new raids /items interacting with the cleric . Whats the best way to perform on a cleric, and what are the caveats. How do you play a cleric in group game? How do you play a cleric in raid @60s,120s,250,300,400,500,......2000s ; how does the cleric interact with other players during this time; how does the cleric interact with other clerics?
    I'm not looking for a write up on the cleric, like a full class strat.
    I'm a big believer in, you should create you're own strat when you start a class; and that the real challenge/skill/strategy of eq, comes from that. Ie: instead of finding a strat for a class, find a strat on how to come to a conclusion on any class on what might be the best course of action.

    People don't create their own strats, so i see the skepticism in sharing information you have, because most people rely on that too make improvements, there is really no way of getting around that. I'm not so coveted with information. Someone beats me, same gear, same adps, I'm giving them props, even if they did get some info from me.

    I also get motivation to work on my toons from others performing well. I use other peoples parses as benchmarks. If my toon needs some work, and i see parses where hes geting pwnt, ill wanna catch him up.

    That brings me to my next issue with parsing, so AA can make a difference but its also real possible for a person to do.
    Gear, fight length,adps, might be out of you're hands. Hard to get raid focus on all you're alts, fight length you are basicly stuck with w/e you're guild does. and ADPS is such a big factor, being in the same group is really the only way to throw down!

    I feel this was a good preface to what I'm about to say, even tho it is scatter brained, it shows where I'm coming from.

    So in trying to find people to talk strat, and link parses people get mad at me.

    I am anti Bullying and MmmQue ing, i def have put my hat in the ring for trying to stop those things; so that may be a factor.

    One of the biggest factors, i feel when people have tryed to bully me in the past, and it didn't work out for the, they got their friends involved to try and bad mouth me? i really am not sure partly why im asking.

    I know eq has had a fair amt of players with low mental health, Do they just surface when people want to talk strat and compete ?

    Another thing it could be is that text is bold and faceless. People can sorta spin to to be something its not, either in their own minds or in someone elses.

    I haven't found one player that like to talk strat or link parses, and yet , look at all the people that take off work to try and beat an expan first (competing) .

    I got locked out of my mains account the other day for a week so i was forced to raid on an alt. (who used to be my main since i was a kid)

    I parsed
    /GU Combined: Icebound Avatar of War in 1206s, 15,150.4m @12562536 | #1 Ixvl + pets 733.8m@(613.6k in 1196s)

    on AOW. And its good, but im positive there is better out there. He had tbl gear, not 1 piece of TOV. He didn't have the proc augs from the evolving gear, because he didn't evolve any gear. He didn't have the proc aug from TBL challenger, because he never did it. Only had rank 2 spells because hes my alt.

    So when i linked it i figured it was gonna get my benchmark parse. a parsed from someone else that blows it out of the water, and gives me motivation to do all those things ive yet to do,

    I basically got called names, and the guy said he did have a better parse for chanter but wouldn't link it.

    I've been one of the moral people in eq. Not lieing, helping others, standing up to bullys, standing up to users,
    When i try and talk about anything /\ /\ /\ like i talked about up there, any of it. People get MAD !
    i don't understand why people are so bent out of shape.
  2. Tanacious Lorekeeper

    OMG!! I can't believe you would discuss this!! What a waste of time!!! LMAO JK

    Most online anything anymore are full of toxic little a**holes that have nothing better to do than be sour about some menial stat or, dps rating of a class that isn't supposed to be dpsing. (On a parser that picks up maybe 60% of everything if it's on a good day)

    This is because there is no consequence for being a nasty little imp as long as you don't say anything racist or gender biased. Other than that, unfortunately it is fair game, and there are some sad sad people in the world that like to de stress that way.

    As far as talking strats go, meh... right now there's really only raid type stuff and that is dwindling by the day. So as you can imagine, the strat largely depends on the type of mob that you are fighting, and what if any scripts the mob might have.

    I got out of raiding except for the occasional goofy pick up raid, and it was very freeing. I know on the CT server there's a freelance raid or some such nonsense, but after reading that you have to know every little detail and there is some sort of quiz to get in, I was like - ya no thanks. I have done my hard core raid guild time. Grouping and boxing is much more relaxed and I could care less about OP gear because I know how to think and use what I have to make it work.

    Humans are also competitive and defensive by nature, especially now with all the BS going on in the world. We sit and play video games cause we think we have nothing better to do, but there are millions more people than normal not knowing where their next meal comes from right now, nor if they will have a roof over their heads for next month. A lot of general instability and fear going around.

    Some people get on to play a game like this one and the fear and anxiety transfers. So they counter with bravado and anger just to try and pump themselves up a little, and maybe forget about how much their RL sucks right now.

    I am one of those people that was not in danger of any of that at the beginning of all this. But as time goes on having been almost 2 months now, I am forced to look at the reality that my saved resources aren't infinite, and 3 months comes quite quickly. (Which is what I always have on hand for a safety net at any given moment)

    That doesn't mean I am going to get on and be a royal jerkwad to everyone I see in chat.

    Some people don't have the separation, and are just angry period.

    But I wish you luck man, just remember, if you find the place too toxic, sometimes walking away is a good thing. I have only been back for about 8 months now, but I am still kind of looking at that 4 month period I have left and wondering if I should just leave it be and go do something more productive, like plant a garden or start a thieve's guild, or something to deal with the ever increasing bleakness of the world.
  3. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    I think maybe you have been going about things a little too gung-ho & then gotten some flak for that.

    I understand your motivations but your methods clearly require some refinement if you are going to avoid rubbing people up the wrong way.

    Generally it's a little egotistical to just link your own parses in chat without some context to it so maybe try prefacing it with a "hey guys, mind if i link a parse and you give me some feedback on how I am doing?" without that context some may just think you're bragging.

    The other approach is asking if your guild parses dps / heals or whatever to see where it can improve, this is a very common strategy used by high end guilds & especially by competitive guild who are aiming to secure serverwide or server first kills. Many guilds not in that race are not too bothered about parses, so long as they win & beat stuff that's enough for them so you have to tailor your approaches & responses & know your audience well before you go wading in parsers blazing.
  4. Mr Blue Sky Elder

    Are you that guy that pulled 16 mobs into the camp, because as a enchanter I should be able to handle it?
    The question though, what's my perspective. A lot of people don't like to change their strats if what they are doing is working. Are you going to tell me i'm not fishing right because I have a beer in one hand?
    code-zero and Nennius like this.
  5. Bobbybick Only Banned Twice

    Bigstomp, Funky, code-zero and 4 others like this.
  6. enclee Augur

    What class?
  7. Nennius Curmudgeon

    Have you asked them? Or do you just assume you are right and everyone else is wrong?
    Skuz likes this.
  8. Pawtato Augur

    Are you just trying to brag about your parse?
  9. Sithsonn Elder

    Damn you suck, check out getguud.com
    yepmetoo likes this.
  10. Endorek Lorekeeper

    My perspective is that edible is kicking your a**
    code-zero, Duder, Marton and 3 others like this.
  11. Cragzop Cranky Wizard

    It's a great parse. Is that what you wanted to hear?

    If you actually want to get better, cast counts (including received) are far more important than any dps numbers. And since a large part of the enchanters job is support, the comparison numbers from others in your group with you and without you from other cycles matter as well.

    Along with the most important factor … event length. Cause that's a true measure of a top raid force working at its best. Especially on events without any randomness.

    I know eq has had a fair amt of players with low mental health, Do they just surface when people want to talk strat and compete ?

    pretty much the textbook example of passive-aggressive bullying. Congrats!
    code-zero, Skuz, Duder and 1 other person like this.
  12. Moege Augur

    Here is what I learned over the last 20 years of EQ. If you publicly* link parse and strats those get nerfed, class gets nerfed and you then suck. That is why people do not want parses linked, why starts is kept semi hidden.

    * Your experience may differ
    code-zero likes this.
  13. Vumad Cape Wearer

    I used to try to teach people how to avoid breaking mez. It was often poorly received despite being polite, appropriate, etc. Getting defensive is a mechanism to protect ones ego, and sometimes getting offensive is how people handle such things. You're shotgunning your view point into general channels. You need to find like minded individuals to have such discussions with. This may start by asking you guild mates if anyone wants to discuss, or finding a group on your server, or finding another guild. There are guilds comprised completely of people who just want to be the best. Oh, and in your post you're very self righteous. It might be very genuine and true, but if you talk like this in your guild, you're going to annoy people.

    I have found the most successful people personally / politically are not the people with the best interpersonal skills, but rather the ones who surround themselves with people who are like minded, giving the impression of superior interpersonal skills. If you choose to surround yourself with people who disagree with you, instead of those who agree, you will become more capable, but the physiological toll is very taxing.
  14. Jhenna_BB Proudly Prestigious Pointed Purveyor of Pincusions

    It's all in the presentation. Don't be a jerk. :)

    There's people that are very good players that over the years I've picked up a thing or two from on these boards. Playing a Ranger is not overly difficult, it's actually even more easy to play the class after some AA consolidations in ToV BETA. I'm always told by Rogue players they push two buttons and you win. Rangers are more complicated than that, but honestly not much more than that.

    I miss the days of people like Shang being around. Players like him were very knowledgeable and seemed to enjoy talking shop with most any level of player. The "best" players now that tend to post here on the boards are an overly annoying group. Not all, but many of them. They argue between other Rangers - which makes getting changes to the class difficult as it's impossible to have a single, unified voice. They tend to have an attitude of "I do this in this way and you didn't so you suck, you're doing it wrong - noob" kind of air to them. This type of personality tends to attract the best types of "followers" selling how awesome these players are. They spread caustic comments in threads among the public scrotum gargling selling how awesome their lord and savior Ranger is. They're internet bullies. It's the worst part of this collection of players. I realized recently it's really not the "best" players themselves that I find most annoying, it's the Toadies in tow and I need to refocus my annoyance level where it should really be aimed at.

    You remember two things well about people: pleasant interactions and everyone remembers an a hole. People play this game for fun to get away from work/family/real life annoyances. No one plays to be sarcastically looked down upon by a know-it-all.
  15. FawnTemplar Augur

    This is rude af.

    If everyone you talk to about parsing and strats gets annoyed with you, perhaps it is time to consider the possibility that you are the problem in those equations.
    Scornfire, Raccoo, Elyssanda and 3 others like this.
  16. Roxas MM Augur

    there's one thing you mentioned you're very right. Typing is something completely different then talking to a person face to face. With the lack of facial expressions a joke for you might be a deep insult to someone else. This effect gets enlarged when people are not native speakers ( yes i am from europe ). As Wakk mentioned, it's really helps to be very clear on what your intentions are to other people when just typing stuff.
  17. Tucoh Augur

    Guild chat is a terrible place to talk about parses and player strategy. A guilds forums is a better place, or some voice chat with another player who cares about the same topic.
  18. Laronk Augur

    So, you do AOW raid much faster than we do (we approach the enrage timer) and I don't have a good parse of our enchanter so its hard to tell. I think 613k dps on an enchanter over 20 minutes is good dps, if this guy was blowing you out of the water he'd link his parse. If someone does actually do more dps than you and won't help you out you can look at their spell counts and everything but on the other end its also important to compare multiple weeks against each other.

    Also sometimes someone will get a parse where the stars align and they do super awesome everything magically goes together and all the adps stacking is perfect. That parse isn't a good representation of reality it's just a representation of potential.

    Finally, you gotta be careful of bragging. If the other person feels like you're saying "I'm tbl geared and you're full TOV geared and I still beat you!" that person is going to tell you to Halfling yourself.
  19. Goburs The Filthy Casualz Leader

    Personally knowing the OP...I can say that at heart he's a good person. Sometimes he doesn't know when to shut up, which can be a problem. The biggest thing is constantly feeling like it's a competition, even in a relaxed group setting, which can rub people the wrong way. He's no doubt one of the better players I know, and I learned quite a bit coming back after a multiple year hiatus....but sometimes ya just gotta know when to tone it down. ;)
    Windchaser and Yinla like this.
  20. Voxynn Elder

    People will come at you , how you come at them.

    Personal interactions are such that the person starting the convo can an usually does set the tone of the interaction.
    Goburs and Duder like this.