Wizards cant nuke....not like Magicians anyhow /bow erm /grovel

Think you wrong. Both in raiding and no raiding.

In raiding, I think they very likely equal in numbers, and outside raiding, I think there is like 4 magicians for each wizard. And this on the live servers, on the tlp servers, i think its even worse, with 6 magicians for each wizard.

I'm not disagreeing that there's more Mages in the group game or on TLP servers. I commented on neither of those cases. I'm talking RoS raids on Live and you can easily look at the raid rosters of most guilds. Most I know of are either equal in numbers or the Wizards double the Mages. This thread was about Mage vs Wiz DPS on a specific RoS raid.

I think it largely depends on guilds/servers, but I think you bring up a good point about TLP (and lesser extent, FV) - that you will find more mages there for various reason. Top end guilds might have more wizards, but middle of the pack or more casual guilds I feel it could go either way.

If I may add;

The problem with wizards is that they have become a little bit more one-dimensional. Well, maybe it was always so.

They rule dps. That is obvious, given, and imho not up for debate. It takes a certain kind of skill not to rule dps with a wizard...

But transportation, evac, rooting, etc... it is just not as sexy as it was once upon a time. A druid will bring quite a lot more to the table for a group, and so will a mage. Both are “good enough” dps, and when open world trash dies in significantly less than 20 sec, 30% more damage from a wizard does very little for the group in this situation.

For raids, it is different, of course.

Not bashing wizards, I love wizards, they are raw arcane power, in the best fantasy tradition. A Pathfinder (or D&D 3.5, after which D&D ceased to excist) Evoker

It's every server. A mage with a healer merc is a full group. Even if tank mercs weren't completely useless, a wizard would still need at least one partner to do anything. You see Mages out moloing all the time, along with certain other classes. Wizards are as dependent on groups as priests are.

Again, this isn't about the population of grouping or solo or boxed or TLP or w/e Mages, this is about the population of Mages in raid guilds. The two are unrelated. I think it's even more specifically about the population of "good" Mages vs Wizards in raid guilds.

And by "good" I don't necessarily mean the actual skill of the player, I mean the results. An average skilled player can take a Wizard and put up good numbers, but it's unlikely they can do the same on a Mage. That makes Wizards a stronger class in a lot of raiding guilds even if the top 1% or w/e of Mages beat the top 1% of Wizards.

This is one of the issues with balancing Mage DPS. On paper it's very high; you can see that if you use kizant's web app. But there are quite a few more asterisks that need to be added to those numbers than for Wizards. In other words, the gap between the theoretical DPS potential for Mages and the real world DPS potential is larger than that for Wizards. A large part of playing a Mage well is how you deal with all of those limitations/"asterisks." That's a lot of fun for people like me, but it also creates a larger gap between those who are able to overcome many of them and the rest of the raiding Mage population.

Top Mages are very strong in RoS outside of VP2/3 due to fire immune bosses. The reason for that has nothing to do with the of Many line; one large nuke every 15 minutes is really not that relevant to overall DPS. I sent a very lengthy PM to the developers during beta estimating the DPS increases from certain changes and suggesting more reasonable alternatives, and they ignored it. If the developers deem a change is necessary, I hope they'd revisit that PM and only change one particular ability. I'd really like to avoid the overboard nerf everything with a hatchet approach. They did an amazing job revitalizing the class in EoK and I'd hate to see nerfs to any of those things; we were pretty well balanced in EoK IMO.

Its sad how mages seem to be assuming a nerf is already a forgone conclusion. If mages can do ANYTHING as well as another class played badly, then mages must be nerfed.
Its not cause of any other reason

As I said, while I have two mage bots i use to summon pet gear and coh people places, fill in for a tank to help some priest or wizard do progression. I would not assume to have any credible input about how either class is played well. I was merely stating why there are so many more mages in the game than wizards.

When I need some caster to join the Group, and it is between wizard or magician, I will take the magician any day of the week.

Transportation these days are worthless today. There no zone, you cannot get to very fast, from ghall or some other spot.

I don't think limiting your options is ever wise

And unless the mage is a complete waste of my precious precious air they come with a free speed bump and mana rods.
The wizard on the other hand is either taking up a slot that could hold somebody amusing, or they whack the mob so hard it forgets about the tank and I have to try and switch healing targets in time to save them. (tongue firmly lodged in cheek).

Unfortunately many magicians nowadays could be construed as a waste of air. And hence a waste of a group spot.

Remember, quantity does not equal quality...

Zerkers always crit... always.

Largely due to the Devs marking wizards nearly a Necessity for beating T2 event two in RoS. I figured it was their way of keeping the class relevant without dealing with balance in-depth. Also a way to keep them on the back burner for a huge nurf.

“But but that wizard is doing over a million DPS!!!” Quote the angry EQ Mage..

*cough*allMagesareBeamkiting *cough

I hope you never actually had to read this. No one who uses their head for more than just to carry their hairdress around would use a mob susceptible to baneDMG as a basis. Right? RIGHT?

If you saw that coming from a mage, at least you know he isn't particularly well endowed in the cranial area ...

I do not see it as limiting my options.

First of all, most of all you almost stationaire in where you performing, so it is about getting to the spot and in all new expansions it is like 2-3 zones away from pok/ghall.

If you not stationaire you doing some tasks and then you moving around in 1-2-3 zones at most and there a magician wins over the wiz with coh.

Magicians pet serve as backup tank if tank goes down and brings mana to grp with rods.

And wizards can pull you out of danger with evac

They should give mages the ability to wipe a single person's agro with one spell. Maybe that person wouldn't even have to zone in order to pull that person out of danger... hmmm!

CotH needs a certain distance to wipe aggro. When we all hitting the mob and I CotH the tank, the mob summons him back. Nice try, though.

I know I am late to the party but this is pathetic.
I understand as you are from AB server that English might not be your first language, but it was very hard to follow your post.
To the best of my understanding, I think you believe that wizards are worse dps than mages.
Even if you're right, that wizards are being beaten by mages of equal skill, so what?
Wizards have had a massive edge on the dps department for a very long time. Mages have endured nerf after nerf for years.
The pendulum swings. Stagnation is bad, nerfing is worse.
Wizards are doing very well and if you are being outparsed, figure out how to improve.
I assure you, that the very best wizards are still capable of out dpsing the very best mages at least half of the time.
As Sancus said, an average wizard will find much greater success at dps than an average mage.