hello, returning player here from about 5 years of not playing eq, im excited for new server to experience classic content for the most part, Im sorry if this topic as been covered but I mained a chanter for all of my eq experiences so I would love to try a dps class for the new server. question is mage or wiz, for the obvious answer mage is better soloer but is mage dps far lower then a wiz? Im really trying to decide these questions, what one is preferred in a group etc.
Mage for grouping, wiz for raiding. Agnarr will have all the MotM/MotOW issues that currently mages. We could output more damage if we had some way of mitigating hate because mages have about the same mana/damage conversion but wizzies have a higher caster-only DPM. It takes mages longer to do equivalent spell damage, so they have to start casting earlier in fights. This combined with their sustained pet damage transferring hate to the mage can sometimes mean dead mage.
Wizards are an amazingly fun/great raid class. Mages aren't great in raids until Luclin at least (other than Cothing), though they do have some moments before that. Groups - Wizards suck. Hate to say it, but it's mostly friend/pity groups. Starting in Luclin AE groups are an option. Mages are much better in groups.
Its not that wizards are "bad" for grouping persay, they just don't have the sustain that many other classes do and in grouping sustain dps is the key.
Because their DPS doesn't equal out when you're pulling non stop mobs. Mages can just send a pet on every single mob and at least do some DPS while medding. Wizards have no option. If you want to contribute to every single mob, you'll go oom super fast as a wizard.
Early on I don't think wizards are nearly all that bad since they can rain and melee won't have gear. That said mages are great in groups and fairly terrible on raids early on. Around Luclin though mages are fine dps on raids and as stated Wizards obviously shine in AE groups.
I definitely found Kunark to be the biggest struggle for my Wizard. Classic was fairly good for raiding, while the mobs do last longer and you do run OOM on them, if you nuke well and get "somewhat" lucky on your resists you should be at the very least in the top 10 dps and if you get real lucky on resists (and get a WDC) you should easily get even higher. Kunark was definitely the biggest struggle with wizard nukes not really getting a ton better as lures/draughts are a bigger thing instead of just straight big nukes and I always felt like Kunark mobs resisted terribly bad. That being said Mages are even worse for raids in both those expansions so there is that, but Necros are much better than both, then come Luclin they start to flip where Necros start to lose power and Wizards continue to gain.
Yeah Kunark was a dark time for wizards. Some fights were still great, but there were way too many lure fights.
Most groups aim for non-stop pulling. Wizards sustained just doesn't hold up as well as others - they have to med. A sitting wizard at (napkin math) 35mana/tick and a standing wizard at 10mana/tick, can (Lavastorm 1300dmg for 200mana) convert that into 6.5dmg/mana, which is 38dps and 11dps. So this may very well peg an average lvl 50 wizard's sustained dps at 11dps in a non-stop grind. Yes you can sit in there, but it's not guaranteed, and yes mobs do often like to jump on you. If you can sit more than half your time and not interrupt most of your mana ticks by being casting (I'll estimate half the time in total for the higher mana regen), your actual sustained dps may be around (38+11/2) 25dps. No resists though right? So in a 2hr grind session in a great group, the goal is non-stop pulls in that 2hrs. The wizard's theoretical dps is 25dps, plus an initial boost from the banked 3k mana (worth roughly 3dps over 2hrs by napkin math), or 28dps. A mage is another option, and the pet alone may do 30dps, and the mage himself, which is worth about 80% of a wizard, does another 23dps, for a total of 53dps. Don't forget the mage pet is a pretty decent tank too. I won't even get into what happens starting at lvl 60 in kunark (melee are generally weakish in classic, minus perhaps, monk) when melee sustained goes up a ton. Yes, caster dps grows too, but not as much (napkin math for Tears of Solusek is 8.2dmg/mana for 55dps/17dps = ~36dps, 4kmana = 5dps = 41dps estimated sustained). In a 2hr grind session with a less-efficient group who has to take frequent breaks (for whatever reason), maybe you're only fighting 1min of every 2min. For those 2 min fights, any melee dps sources in the group see their overall dps in those 2hrs cut by 50%, but it's still about the same on a per-fight scale. A caster sees a larger boost per-fight though, since they're banking a higher average amount of stored dps in the form of higher mana regen. Basically, if you're in a less optimal group, a wizard is more desirable than in a highly efficient group (as are most other casters in general). This is why the more hardcore players, those who favor efficiency/etc, will tell you that wizards are less optimal in groups, and this translates into having more issues in getting them. When you hear from other people, who may be less focused on efficiency or having constant mobs-in-camp, they don't see them as that much of a detriment. Mathematically speaking, if youre not keeping mobs in camp constantly, a wizard's position improves relatively to pure melee dps sources. Regardless, a mage is generally superior. Remember, even players who may not be min/max tend to make groups with an eye for efficiency (thus the druid plight), so this tends to make wizards getting groups a bit harder even with a regular population of players. As you may imagine, when it comes to resists, problems with over-agro, etc, this can all cause a wizard's sustained dps to drop even more, and thus their competitiveness to another class in a group slot. Lastly, the wizard spellbook just doesn't have extras - there are no dmg shields or mod rods that a mage can bring, nor are there heals/dmg shields/buffs that a druid can bring, etc. A monk can pull and even tank, a warrior can tank, a ranger can do more things. Necros are a bit more limited in a fast group - their dots simply dont have time to get maximum efficiency, but even they have a pet and some group benefit. This is why, when it comes to TLP servers, you see warnings being given to people that they may want to be really sure they want to play a Nec, Wiz, or Rog. If you want to play one - great. But just realize that there are reasons you're being given warnings.
Grouping for xp will be shorter on this server than previous ones due to the xp gain rate being higher here. I would pick a class around end game raiding and not grouping for 80 hours to hit max level. In that regard, I would take a wizard every day over a mage. Plus wizards just get better and better as the expansions release (possibly excluding Kunark).
Necro on there doesn't make too much sense since, if for some reason you can't find one, is a great ghetto enchanter. Mezz, undead charm, and high mana regen. If you have good dps and pull situation you can just have your necro rooting adds on inc and starting them dotted. Ultimately, I think most of us are 100% fine at this point with inviting any class to group. Sure, you might not get invited to the group wanting to minmax level to the extreme, but who cares?
Wizard in plane of hate: You have enough mana for 7 ice comets, 6 of them are outright resisted, 7th one hits for 153, now sit for 15 minutes. Wizards are literally the worst class in classic, and don't get much better in any of the expansions that will be on this server. Mage has pet that is at least decent, consistent damage on every fight, but goofy TLP rules sort of seriously hamstring mages in any content that matters. Wizard will end up *ok* at end game on this server, but it's a real slog getting there, and once ports are no longer as important, they are really only good for burns. Any kind of sustained fight, and they are bested by literally every other DPS class and tanks. Wizards are a suckers game, people see big numbers once in a while and get excited, meanwhile, that monk in your group just did 8x your total DPS over the course of an hour. If they cut wizards mana usage my 75%, they'd still be a marginal class, because groups like to fight red mobs, and the bulk of your experience in any kind of decent leveling group with be resists, or really inefficient spells and a lot of sitting trying to regain mana. /shrug. I played a wiz at release, and have played them a few times off and on since, including TLPs. I keep trying, but the reality is, they are a fairly horribly designed class in terms of mana usage and resists on content that people actually want to fight. One of the big design problems with EQ in general, is that there is not auto attack equivalent for wizards (mages have pet which is pretty much on pair with a semi-decent auto attack value). Given that fact, their mana usage is just laughably out of whack. All that being said, if you think they are a fun class to play, by all means. The difference between a wiz and mage is tough to call at this point, because mages are so hosed in raid content, if it wasn't for that, it wouldn't even be a close call, mage all the way.
The difference here, if this server is going to be like the others, is that you aren't going to have to sit 5-10 minutes to med anymore, so grouping is more viable as a wizard. However, even with that they don't really bring much utility to a group other than root and snare.
The only people who should be rolling wizards as a main are those who have played a classic or TLP wizard before, know how bad they are, and know what they're getting into. Wizards during classic felt like they were an unfinished and forgotten class. Outside of raiding, they are easily the worst class in the game. If you are not one of the above people, for your own sanity and enjoyment you should consider another class. I personally have always played the Wizard archetype in RPGs, but on Project 99 I rolled 2 mages and got them to 46ish and 51 and enjoyed it. Wizards are just weak Mages until after several expansions come out. I hate to say it that way. but it's the truth.
Wizards are monsters on raids. If you care more about the group game than the raid game by all means you should play a mage.
One thing about Wizards is everyone wants them on raids but no one wants to group with them to get them the levels to raid.
Having raided a wizzy for my entire EQ time I will tell you the damage difference between wizzys and mages is marginal in regards to DD spells on a POP locked server. Mages have pets to make up the small dps loss and can maintain dps even when OOM wizzys are much more mana regen dependant and our low mana cost nukes just suck . now I don't know anything about motm and I don't know if that will extend to POP raiding but I doubt it will. you can TL at end of raid as a utility but in my opinion mod rods and COTH greater than TL any day as there are gate potions. there is one raid where wizzys destroy portals in POP but 2 can do this.
