Wishes for the next expansion?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Lilura, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    Wait say that isn't so. I love bagels. Really?
    menown likes this.
  2. Duder Augur

    Yes, the removes the reward system for raiding new content, beat things a minimal amount of times to unlock vendor stuff and get keys so that you can continue farming Chardok Prince and Droga while getting bigger loots as a payout via currency trade. That just isn't how EQ works, I imagine this idea might appeal to Mid-Tier guilds but its actually far more of a curse than you might think. And people already have nearly RoS raid equivalent gear (GMM), from a cheese zone. They couldn't get the RoS gear via raids, wait till next expansion when the group gear increases further.

    Also, like so many things on this boards, people asking for this to be made easy or given, and that made easy or given.... well, personally, id feel like the value of the reward for my efforts are being diminished if something like this occurred. I put in a lot of time, effort, and thought to raid current and be rewarded with new/current items, the time and effort I put in wouldn't feel rewarding if everyone in the game could get the same items with less effort

    All of that (And that poster is saying that pushing out gear faster is not a good thing, which I agree with)
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  3. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    Augment Events within raid zones doable with a few groups. Like Anguish, Demiplane or TSS zones. Throw 1-2 Augs in a chest and a few spell turn in items and call it a day. Mobs or simple events that are very challenging for 1 group but fairly manageable for 2-3.

    Personally I always liked the fact that there was some raid content that was fairly easy in era compared to other raids in that tier. Some examples being M’shas in Qvic, PoTime Phase 1, Chaliak/Feratha, Rallos Returns, HoT Upper, etc.

    These raids were mostly doable with 2-3 groups in era, less if you were good. But they provide an avenue to farming gear and spells for mains and boxes outside of raid hours, but more importantly provide a challenge to a smaller force that isn’t really present in the group game for raiders.

    One idea I’ve always wished would happen is a series of solo, class specific tasks that challenge you at different aspects of your class. Sort of like solo MPG Trials. For example, the cleric version could have 5 scenarios:

    Scenario 1 - Healing Single Tank- You zone into an instanced version of the arena and you have a friendly NPC tank and a KoS champion. Your job is to keep the friendly NPC alive as long as possible. The KoS champion will increase in power every 30 seconds.
    Scenario 2 - Healing Multi Tank - You zone in under the same scenario above, however instead of every 30 seconds having the boss increase in power instead every 30 seconds an additional friendly NPC and KoS champion spawn. You must keep them all alive as long as you can.
    Scenario 3 - Battle Cleric - You zone in and there is just KoS champion who summons at 100%, you must stay alive as long as possible.
    Scenario 4 - Swarm Cleric - You zone in and are swarmed every 15 seconds by additional light blue con mobs, you must stay alive as long as possible.
    Scenario 5 - Burn Cleric - You zone in and have a countdown timer to a death touch. You must kill the NPC Champion who is very weak offensively before the timer expires.

    In each of these scenarios there would be 3 achievements. The first aimed at a regular player. Keep a single tank alive for 5 minutes on scenario 1, keep 5 different tanks alive for 30s on scenario 2, stay alive for 5 minutes in scenario 3, stay alive against 20 NPCs in scenario 4, and kill the mob before the DT timer catches you on scenario 5. The second would be aimed at a top tier group player. Maybe these would increase to 7 minutes, 8 offtank a, 8 minutes, 30 NPCs and kill the NPC with 30 seconds to spare respectively. The third would be aimed at a raiding player, again the milestones would increase.

    For completing every achievement in a tier you are rewarded an item. For example a cleric completing the first set, would get a type 4/8 aug with a Sympathetic Hand of Holy Soothing proc. Essentially like Hand of Holy Wrath but instead fires off beneficial casts, heals your target, returns mana to you and heals your group. A cleric completing the second set would get a cleric mace with a clicky Heal on a separate timer from the VP hammer. A cleric completing the third set would get a Trophy with a Heal Amount, Clairvoyance, Heroic Wisdom, Heroic Stamina Type benefit.

    The trials could be a lot of copy overs between archetypes. For example Druids and shamans would share scenarios 1 and 2 with clerics, perhaps with different cut offs for the achievements based on how much they lean into this aspect of their class.

    Every class would have a “survive as long as possible” Scenario 3 and a “DPS as hard as you can”, Scenario 5.

    Class specific ones would be some Mez/Root CC for Enchanter/Bard/Ranger/Druid/Shaman/Necro, some charming stuff for Enchanter/Druid/Necro/Bard, some keep your pet alive/pet tank stuff for Magician/Necro/Beastlord, some Trap navigation for Rogue/Bard, some tank swapping tasks for SK/Paladin/Warrior, some DPS swapping challenges (either weapon type or discipline) for Berserker/Ranger/Warrior, some pulling/mob isolation for Monk/Bard/Enchanter/SK/Necro, etc.

    Lots of possibilities available! But I do know this would be time consuming to code and test, even with sharing between archetypes for many of the tasks.
  4. Proximoe Elder

    Upgrade/update type 3 augs
  5. Angahran Augur

    Ah, the old, "I had to walk to school, uphill both ways, in the snow so everyone else should too" argument.

    I leveled to 50 when that was the max level but I don't go around yelling that heroic characters make what I did any less.

    You'd still have to do current raids to unlock the locked items so it's not like noone would be doing current content.

    But I can see the other side, so just allowing 'downgrading' of raid currency would be very useful, along with unlocking previous expansion items.
  6. Natal Augur

    The rest of the raid can be creating a diversion while that is going on. Just like what might happen in a real battle.
  7. Natal Augur

    Encounters with DPS checks are a bad idea because they penalize guilds that can't field full raids. In this era with most if not all mid tier guilds struggling to get the numbers to do any kind of current content, it seems to me that would be poor design.

    If you are going to put any sort of dps check in a raid, it should scale proportionately to the numbers in the raid event (either as scaleable mob hp, or scaleable add timers). That would allow mid tier guilds to still do current content and have a chance at beating it. In most raids nowdays guilds that can't field full raids get overrun by adds because they don't have enough dps, or if they can keep up with the adds they encounter the powerup mechanic because so little time is available to damage the boss. Those sorts of things need to be proportional to the number of people actually in the raid.

    That would allow the current top tier guilds to continue raiding with 54 and not trim rosters, while the mid tier guilds that normally field somewhere in the low to mid 40s are not cut out since the dps check would scale to the actual number of people in the raid.
    Daedly likes this.
  8. Cadira Augur

    Glad you were smart enough to find the definition of solo, my friend! Too bad you are not smart enough to understand its application in this sense. Let me explain:

    A solo task in no way shape or form has ever necessarily meant you could accomplish it by yourself. Think, for a second, if you're capable, how else could the "solo" part of "solo task" be interpreted?

    Let's see, there's also group tasks, yes? And we know some group tasks can be accomplished by one person, yeah? Fight fire for example by an awesome sk and possibly other classes and players of sufficient skill. So it would seem group does not imply you "need" a group to do it?

    So, using your own definition, who receives a solo task upon request with any particular quest dealer? YOU! Just YOU! For one person, done by one person. If no one else has the solo task, they will not receive quest updates for it, rewards for it, any of the steps in their quest window, etc. Just you. How's this differ from a group task? A group task solely means it can be done as a group where all those in the task get quest updates, rewards, etc for said task.

    It has no reference to difficulty of the task, only refers to how many people get credit as you do it. But anyone who's played eq for more than 30 minutes has figured that out.

    Have a good day ; )
    Belexes likes this.
  9. Jhenna_BB Proudly Prestigious Pointed Purveyor of Pincusions

    Dump current type 3 augs. Move the effects to the Focus AA Tab. Make it so older effects from gear or augs can be placed in type 3's. Ex. Shawl Augs, Book of Obulus, Belt of Boromus. I'm sure others could top of mind better than I just did. Use the type 3 slot for future effects, like the ones from 18/19 augs as an example.
    Dsuna, Beimeith, Tucoh and 1 other person like this.
  10. Duder Augur

    I did not say anything about downgrading, I mentioned the idea of using old currency to trade up to new currency

    And yes, it needs to be hard for everyone, make it ezmode and NO ONE will play, if you want a participation trophy, eq isn't your game. Are you also a proponent of server merges for free just because you think it should happen?
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  11. Angahran Augur

    So your answer is that solo does not mean solo.

    If a 'solo' task REQUIRES a group then it is in no way, shape or form a SOLO task.
    Do you work in politics by any chance ?

    Sure, a group task may, in some rare instances be doable by a single person, a max level character could almost certainly do any number of 'group' tasks from previous expansions and even some from current content.
  12. Angahran Augur

    You mean there were paid server merges at some point ? I must have missed those.
  13. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    Yeah there are solo tasks that require a group. The solo simply means you don't need a group to get the task but do to complete it. Confusing but that is how they define solo tasks. All solo tasks are obtainable solo but not necessarily able to be completed solo.

    I guess they should be more appropriately named "individually obtainable quests(,may need group to complete)"
  14. Scornfire The Nimbus Prince

    This is a really fun idea, bye epic! (As if)
  15. Mehdisin Mahn Augur

    Iksar shamans everywhere despise you, don't they...…
    LDEffectsMe likes this.
  16. Duder Augur

    Server transfers, countless people have had to pay to transfer servers when their guilds folded and they saw no other options, when their servers populations dips, etc. Just because you don't like what I have to say doesn't mean you should act daft in response, but ty for your replies. What are your reasons for thinking old currency should trade into new currency? How will that help the game?
  17. Allayna Augur

    Tank n Spank is incredibly boring and you want that implemented in missions?! The entire expansion has a static zone, tank n spank at will there. There aren’t raid mechanics in static camps. Don’t water down the whole game. GMM is boring, but BiS gear and amazing exp are redeeming qualities.
    If TBL had launched how you’re expecting the next expansion to go, you would see far less doing missions.

    The issue I see with your version of casual is that people expect to enter the latest expansion in CoTF gear, CoTF bought augs and 0 understanding of discs, basic EQ knowledge or dps and then gripe, “OMGZ this expansion suxxors” ....no dude, maybe it’s you!

    I think those that are clamoring about how much they loved LDON are really saying, “I love dungeon crawls”.
  18. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    I think I said some encounters should be ALMOST plain tank and spank. Lets face a lot of people don't raid because they want to play a simpler game then the raid game. Raiding is your bread and butter of course you find anything tank and spank boring. I wouldn't expect anything else. I just think the core of an expansion should be tank and spank with light mechanics not having the difficulty based on how many hoops a group can jump through at once while fighting.

    And I get it you feel otherwise. That's cool we can both have our own views on it. I appreciate that it isn't the type of game you want to play.... of course you always have the raids for the fancy stuff.

    I know its hard to believe but a lot of folks will play Gribbles and GMM over and over and enjoy it. Yeah I think both were too easy and could have been tuned up a bit but there is no denying the popularity of gameplay that deals with more basic mechanics.

    I mean DBG must at least be able to see how often the different content is being done. People do Ashes once and never go back unless its to pull someone else through. People do GMM missions over and over. So I dunno.... the tank and spanks get played again and again and again. The complicated stuff gets done the minimum number of times needed in most cases. The numbers don't lie.

    I just believe basic fighting should be at the core of the group game so that any make up of group can handle things with a few mechanics thrown in but not being the deciding factor in being able to complete the content. Then in the upper ends of the expansion in the Nice to DO category put the difficult raid like encounters. Sure you don't get to enjoy doing stuff that stumps the mediocre players but I just want expansions sold lots of by in by as many players as possible so the game goes on.

    And fancy encounter mechanics are much more forgiving on raid geared folk who practice for fancy enounter mechanics every raid they do. Less so for group geared folk. It would be nice if there was a big pool of casual players enjoying the game so that when the time comes raid guilds like yours can dip into that pool for recruits. I just want a healthy group game for my peeps and I want a healthy raid game for your peeps. If both groups can be kept happy our game keeps going that much longer.
  19. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    Btw the way good going on taking it to silly extremes but hey if that's what you gotta do I guess that is ok. Even Holly says TBL was poorly received.

    Its funny I don't recall saying what gear or play ability should be required to play the next expansion? Did we have that conversation and I've forgotten? If you used the Psychic Hotline I gotta tell you. That's not for real.
  20. Aurastrider Augur

    This might be true for some players but there are a lot of casuals with limited playing time. I have known lots and have become this players. Its not that we don't enjoy a challenge its more that we don't have time for them. Having missions that can be done in roughly 30 minutes keeps these players coming back. The problem with open world is the reward for such a short period of time just isn't there. Log in, clear a camp two, maybe three times and then log out for the day. Maybe you earn a couple dozen AA's and if you are lucky you get a named to spawn and an upgrade. Missions on the other hand provide a sense of accomplishment every time usually even if its only minor. This is why gribble was so popular and I know players who literally stopped logging in after they changed how HAs work. It took away the one thing they had time to actually accomplish.

    I am ok with the "core" of the expansion requiring lots of effort. Evolving gear, long quest lines, final zone being a significant challenge from the entry zone. This will keep the more hardcore players engaged for the majority of an expansion cycle. Failure to provide some missions and open world content that causals can enjoy will just remove them from the expansion from the start. There should be something for both play styles to enjoy for a year from the start.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.