Truth be told I like Daybreak a lot. They work on a 20 year old game with a dying player base and that cannot be easy. While I don't agree with every decision they make or I wish they would or could do more, I am always very grateful for what they do.
The worst part of truebox is that it is a permanent solution to a problem that only affects the first few expansions. There's no reason why truebox should still exist for content that was released in an era where an average gaming machine could run 2 or more instances of EQ. Maybe just turn it off by GoD or something. By then the low level game has died down to the point where forcing newcomers to truebox is just plain harmful to the server
If the underlying purpose of truebox is to create an environment where people group with other people and have to be social, that shouldn't end just because the tlps reach eras in which the game was struggling with just such a problem... Even a fresh start live server, every expac etc, could be cool IF they restricted it to one or two account(s) per person. The problem is not the game or its content, the problem is the move towards isolated individual playing in it that every server takes which leaves most people feeling either left out or in a boring single player environment, unless raiding. Truebox not being perfect isn't a reason to drop it, its a reason to fix or improve on it.
Has DBG ever stated that was a reason for truebox? I see a lot of players reading that into truebox, but I don't think DBG has ever stated that? Nothing is going to make other people group with you. The idea that you can convince others to play with you by taking away their favorite toy is absurd. That doesn't make them want to play with you, it just makes them bored enough to leave the playground altogether.
I think it is obvious that there is enough demand for Truebox for DBG to continue it, despite it being an empty promise. Even though I think it is ridiculous and I don't care for it, I don't expect them to stop it any time soon. But this thread is about the possibility of a new non-Truebox server, for those of us who don't like it. What would be negative about offering a non-Truebox server? How would that hurt anybody?
That is EXACTLY what happens. People who would otherwise box a single player group instead find and group with other human beings. Exactly as intended and clearly stated by daybreak: Q: What is a True Box Progression Server? This is a server where each player will only be able to play one EverQuest account from his or her computer at a time. We want to encourage players to play with their friends on this server, and not just form groups of only their alts.
That sounds cool but we all know player population drops after the new TLP comes out and then the old TLP is stuck with both a lower population and truebox
No, they don't. Those who have the money to sink into extra machines box a group anyways, going through various levels of frustration, annoyance, or attempt to circumvent the rules. Those who don't don't play on these servers. I know of multiple people who would love to play on Phinigel, but won't play the game without the ability to one computer box because they don't want or can't spend the money on machines, and won't use VMs. They don't want to be beholden to the whims of other people in order to play the game when they want to play the game because of the class they chose. Truebox does nothing but hurt servers in the long run. Either put in a sunset on it around TSS, or just get rid of it and try something else because all it does is punish legitimate players and does nothing to exploiters.
Statistics, financial reports and logs of what has happened in the past cannot predict with any certainty what might happen in the future, if a company tries something that has never before been tried. Such as, for instance, a server that has AoC's and allows unrestricted boxing.
I'd argue the problem IS the game and the content. Let's face it, playing one toon in Everquest, at least for the first ~20 expansions, leaves you a LOT of time in between keystrokes to do other things. No class needs to hit a key more than once every three or four seconds on average, up through SoD or so. A game that is so slow paced almost begs for boxing, to give you something to do the other 90% of the time that you aren't occupied on your first character. The other option is tabbing out and playing forumquest (or netflix etc). Boxing is generally more healthy because at least you are maintaining situational awareness while not actively hitting keys on your main toon.
I've recently purchased a crystal ball, and can therefore predict what will happen if they open a free-box server with AoC. There will be an initial server boom (just like all of the other TLP, albeit less actual players), people will race to the end with all of their boxes to try and make as much plat as possible for Krono, PoP will reach its end or DBG opens ANOTHER TLP, and there will be a mass exodus to continue the Krono farm yet again on a new server leaving the free-box AoC server desolate. I'll eat a shoe live on YouTube if I'm wrong.
Daybreak added AoCs + truebox code at the same time, which made it seem like truebox was actually what made Phinigel wildly successful. We will never actually know. There has never been a non-truebox server with AoCs starting from classic. It would be like if they now released a new server, with group instances, raid instances, and without truebox code. If that server ended up being wildly successful as well, how would we ever judge what the actual draw was? People would say "it was group instances!" and other people would say "it was the removal of truebox!" and there'd be almost no way to ever know.
What I would like to see is a server that is very much like this but somehow forces the boxer to actually make the key strokes. If you are going to play 2, 4, 6, 12, 24 toons (one computer or many), you have to make the actual key stroke for every single action. It is how I play my six box (when I am playing), no third party, add-ons or special hardware that allows one button command for 'x' number of accounts. These things to me are all automation of the game which defeats the purpose. Play the game! Coupled with AoC's this to me would be a very enjoyable environment. If a person can play multiple toons effectively while making every single key stroke for every account, more power to them. I am sure this would discourage massive armies while still allowing people to box whatever they are capable of. Pipe dream, I know.
See, I disagree and see it very differently. The downtime between pulls while people had to med up, or lulls between hitting keys gave people time to chat in groups and get to know each other. It let you be social. If it wasn't for the game being setup that way, I wouldn't have made friends with but a fraction of the people I did back in the day. That, sadly, is lighting in a bottle. Its unlikely to happen again due to the game being a known entity, and most people being happy to min-max rush their way to the top so they can sit there bored asking for faster unlocks and more content for them to zip through. I know its just going to make me sound old... but EQ is the journey, and not the destination for me. I like grinding with random folks in random spots. IDC if its an optimal spot for that level or not.. bonus points if its an area I never/almost never go to. Boxing... well eliminates so much of that. Antisocial people go full "ME mode" and only care about themselves and their boxes. No other players matter or even get treated as other humans. I really enjoyed Ragefire (to a point), and Phinny (to a much later point), but the last few servers have just been back to the ugliness as the tools used to cheat in EQ are more widely available and there are (apparently) some new ones (or one?) floating around out there that are just as bad or worse then the old ones. I think its why I don't really like modern EQ. Its become a button-mash fest. Hell I have 6 hotbars up on my 100bst and have 2 pages on a couple of them. Its just too much to juggle to be fun anymore. Ahh well, I guess I can be glad I got to experience EQ like that back in the day, and just a tad sad the current playerbase is largely anti-social and greedy. And no, you can't have my stuff. Its mostly no-trade anyways.
Uh, isn't that precisely the goal of True Box? Yes, the cheaters have (for now) figured out a way around True Box but that doesn't change the fact that "one PC per character and no 3rd party cheat tools" was the goal from the start.
This thread is a about a non-truebox server w/ AoC's. This is what I would like to see with whatever anti-cheat code to counter any sort of automation, be it illegal 3rd party programs or hardware that does the same sort of thing. This allows for boxing via one computer or many, two accounts or twenty depending on your skill level at managing them. This would level the playing field for those who want to box (it is designed into window mode with the automatic mouse release) but do not want to cheat. It would also allow people who do not care to box to play on a server that allows boxing because they know full well decent boxers allow more flexibility in group and raid play. It would also limit peoples ability to box full+ groups because it would require much more work. I know playing my six box this way would destroy my hands... I suppose it is moot since they can not keep up w/ the cheaters. At least this server would have an escape for folks in the form of AoC's. The biggest drawback would be the hit to Rage & LJ, where my crew resides retired since Oow.
You don't need downtime any more for this. Just about everyone uses voice chat. You can socialize and still maintain >100 actions per minute relatively easily. This is not 1999.
I see. So you want the ability to Alt-Tab on one PC but that's the only difference from the current True Box servers.
Ugh, people actually alt tab when boxing on one computer??? I always assumed this was just a reference, you are not serious are you? Ill borrow a post from Machentoo above, 'this is not 2000'. Seriously though, if people are alt tabbing using the stock UI, you are doing it wrong. If you are using custom UI to box that does not have the auto mouse release, you are doing it wrong. With the stock UI in window mode you drag the mouse to the bottom of the screen, it releases and becomes controllable from the desktop. From there you left click the instance of EQ you need from the task bar. Most actions are made via keyboard anyways, minimal point and click. This is so much more efficient and allows for much faster transitions vs alt-tab. If you need to point and click, just raise the mouse from task bar on the account you need to point and click and the UI automatically recaptures the mouse. Its so easy! The reference to 2000 was about the time I found EQW or Everquest windows which forced the game into windows and also had a mouse release function. However it was limited, as a three boxer on one computer back in 2000 using this 3rd party cheat (to rmt no less), I had to use a combination of alt tabbing on two accounts while the third or middle instance was left mouse released. You would alt tab from the first or third account to the second which had the mouse release. I believe my cleric was that account, easy to heal without having mouse control as EQW did not automatically recapture the mouse like the current stock UI does. This way I could quickly transfer from the tank to the chanter passing through the cleric and of course back again. If you have not tried the stock UI in window mode for boxing, I highly suggest you do. Back to the topic at hand, iirc the truebox servers were supposed to have additional or special anti-cheat support to counter the very large box crews, botting etc. Obviously this has not gone very well however it would still be nice to have this implemented on a non-truebox server to level the playing field. If you are going to play the game, make each and every key stroke on all the accounts! Theoretically this would discourage the massive crews while still allowing folks to box whatever they are capable of due to the amount of work it requires to make every key stroke for every action for each account.
