Will a real Phinny Guild please step up?

<Cascade> Will use a loot counsel.

Cascade awards loot on a weighted merit based system. We distribute loot based on many factors, including raid attendance, quality of upgrade, usefulness to class, and previous loot received.

Our goal is to put the loot where it will best serve the guild from a raid progression standpoint, we do not punish members for taking items that are not their best in slot but still a fairly decent upgrade. We place a high value on loyalty and attendance, and tend to award the best items to individuals that have proven themselves to be trustworthy and reliable.

<In Virtue> will use a loot counsel. Plus they may be too laid back for serious raiders.

Berran, "We have never used DKP in the past, so I doubt we will use it here."

Yet to be explored is <Aethos>. No information provided as of yet.

So no thank you to crooked loot counsels. Will a real, serious guild please step up? Any European Guilds planning on organizing?

My thought is DKP but debating handing top reigns to a friend with a very effective history of leading. (he led RoI for a long stretch on Combine)

There will be some form of transparency for sure though. So either DKP or open view loot counciling or similar. Even if we do still stick to DKP it will likely have something to make sure BoC ends up on warriors, etc though - not pure chaotic DKP.

Yea, that makes sense. Gear warriors first, have some items reserved for certain classes is standard. Sounds good so far. Looking forward to more information.

Yeah DKP solves a LOT of issues and refusing to use it creates the possibility for jackarsery.
Last go round with a guild that wouldn't use it turned out to be exactly that, run by jackarses, yeah I knew better but they seemed like such a nice bunch of guys... ah well.
At least with DKP one can see exactly how things were given out and those exceptions for key positions in the raid that only make life easier later are more on the up'n'up.
So if I ever do that again its DKP or nothing.

Restricted DKP seems to work really well with open bidding in a loot channel.
Loot manager can call any restrictions.

LM tells RaidLoot 1: BoC Warriors bid now
LM tells RaidLoot 1: Slime Blood of CT necros bid now

Restrictions should be the rare case not the common case.

I've never had good experiences with loot councils. I once had a raid leader who made ridiculous choices, like giving a bow to a non-ranger and an item with a dot extension focus on it to a magician.

Would be precisely something like that with a SMALL list built in advance of each expansion release.

DKP did work well on AD and since a lot of items are class based raid leader would let first main bid then if no main wanted it alternate or those on the trial period could bid.

Ill add in something just for the discussion...

From a GL standpoint god loot/loot council can be nice because it can give you a stronger hold on your members. Your "mercenary" type members dont always bend over to do things that dont benefit them. If they know it MAY cost them a chance at loot they tend to be a bit more receptive from my experience.

Not saying its any better or worse than DKP just adding to the conversation! =)

I think AD did loot in a very healthy and fair way in almost every respect.

Indeed Krim. Key is finding the balance so it doesn't end up feeling biased.

From a GL standpoint, if you need to play games with loot to exert a hold over your members, you are already losing the battle.

Kinda picking apart what Im saying but thats ok some people will understand what Im saying.

Oh, I understood what you are saying. I stand by my point. If you need the threat of a loot council withholding loot to retain members or motivate them to do things to help the guild, you are already losing the battle. Loot councils have to avoid drama and keep the respect of the vast majority of members in order to work successfully long term. What you are talking about deliberately heads down the road toward drama, which is going to hurt your retention rather than help in the long run.

Loot-based council is the best way to distribute gear for the overall goal of making the guild better........when people are unbiased and do it fairly.

Sadly, that has never been the case in my experience. DKP all the way with class bias is instead what I prefer.

Yep, thats what we have always used.

There is nothing wrong with loot councils. People tend to hate them because they will grant loot based on what's best for the guild and sometimes that means the top warrior or top cleric get additional loot that would normally go to others because it helps the guild progress faster. However, I have been in DKP guilds that sometimes restrict the first couple drops of the top BPs for the same reasons, and I have seen (though not participated in) loot council guilds that were very generous to lower geared members to get them up fast. As with everything, it depends on the situation and YMMV.

For what it's worth even when I disliked Krim, and went out of my way to look for complaints about him, I only ever heard of a single incident over YEARS and two servers that people disagreed with. (and frankly from my understanding it sounded deserved anyhow and the complaints weren't warranted - the first DoVassirs Gaunts)

There's not many I'd trust with a loot council, but Krim is one of the people on that short list.

Hey thanks friend, Ill be sure to send our first CoF to <Aethos> for your kind words.

I'm starting a guild for Phiny that will put loot rules to voting, either LC or DKP. I've seen both work very well when leadership isn't corrupt. - http://www.broken-wave.org