Why should pure melee outdamage others?

There will always be mechanics to hinder one person or another, I dont see how you all can argue about this when its totally irrelevant to the the original question.Stun effects casters and melee, silence effects casters but amnesia effects melee, there's melee slows and spell slows to make you swing or cast slower, damage shield to hinder melee dps or healer time and mana, there's also full or partial spell reflect, blind effects, knockback, fd, immunities, etc etc etc. Thats part of what makes this game awesome. Soloing and Exp is also totally irrelevant to the question at hand.

We should be talking about vs combat dummy, with or without the perfect group. There is basically 4 categories, burst assisted and burst non-assisted, and sustained with assist and without assist. How should everyone rank in those 4 scenarios is the all mighty question that no one will answer.

The shadow of Luclin is a belly caster with Wild Ramp. And its ramp range is greater then melee range. Quite a few Dragons in NToV are belly casters also.

Like I said though, Melee are designed to take hits. You have higher caps then casters do. Casters do not all of a sudden gain better mitigation and AC because they HAVE to cast in melee range. I normally stand in melee range as all mages should, can I haz your mods?

How about getting hit with a stun while casting and having your spell bar locked out? Getting Silenced or feared during Twincast? Not being tied down to an ADPS caster like melee are so fighting for healers? Forced to use AEs and getting ruined by adds? Pet classes deal with those DSes also. Pet classes also deal with movement and all that other fancy melee hardships.

I think because my class gets the worst of both worlds (if there is a slow my pets are ruined, silence I am ruined ect) that I should be the king of Sustained and Burst. So should Rangers and BLs. That is sound logic, yes?

Rogues and Monks also face detrimental effects from silence where as your pet wouldn't while you are silenced. Poison procs, melee procs, then there's also amnesia effecting discs.

Now mitigation, monks have it good there so fine, Rogues and Zerkers mitigation isn't good enough to stand there and withstand current Wild Ramp (don't even think monks have that option in reality..), backing out is the only solution, as it is for you to wait for that heal. Difference is, while we back out we don't have the option to dps from that range while waiting on a heal.

Pet reaction time to get back on mobs is far greater then melee will ever be considering lag and locating the mob. Standing at max melee range avoids most ramp however negates most short disc skills (incursion, rogue dots, zerkers have theirs, monks have their own). Mages can stand far enough away from the mob to avoid Wild Ramp while maintaining their max dps, you're making it sound a bit exaggerated and bit melodramatic (otherwise perhaps your class should be asking for more mitigation for yourself rather then just the pet)...

Getting silenced or feared during a 30s disc pretty much negates that disc entirely, will call that a push. Getting stunned kills a portion of a disc, I only wish it would pop back up in a few seconds or had a way to refresh it after I've used it once already... Since the majority of melee dps is balanced around their disc usage vs just standard auto-attack.

All you've proven is, not only do you benefit spell casting when your pet can't dps, but you also get the option of dps'ing from a pet when you can't just use spells, so get best of both worlds. Glass half empty/half full.

You pretend that melee fare better than casters on this stuff, the only classes that are living through wild ramp without a care in the world are tanks. We all mitigate like a wet paper bag on most of this content.

Um no, actually it means you are not fully nerfed just 50/50. Whereas if your a Wizard your SOL on a silence fight but are at full power on a Slow fight. Not to mention when Mages get silenced 20% of our DPS can not be cast, because those pets are based on spells. Its essentially the same thing as would you med if your oom, but had a pet to do some DPS? Everyone would med so they could use their spell power and not just their pet. That is the point, classes that are at 50% or less during either effect is worse then being at 100% or bust. If a silence hits roughly 80% of my DPS is lost. If a slow hits 40 to 50% of my DPS is lost. Most of which gets lost because people are not considering Pet classes and hybrids in their discussion where 90% of melee effects go negatively against pets.

You apparently haven't seen how pets path either.

SOE wont give us mitigation discs for our pets, our only tank disc is intended to be a DS mitigation tool lol. Would help to research things before commenting. Mages haven't asked for pet centric survival in years.

I am not exaggerating any more then people claiming melee should have the top DPS because of some of these effects. Outside of rezz effects most things are a draw. Which I already said those should be gone, its a pointless thing.

No class has any claim to be top dps. Wizards were the only ones who might, but the draw back was aggro control and mana management. Everything is so situational and to a large degree...luck of the draw.. that getting hung up on the whole pecking order is just a good way to have drama, bickering and ill will. You can reference lore or stereotypes from pencil and paper games, movies, books from the whole sword and sorcery genre and make some kind of argument but with EQ the goal is to outlast your opponent. It is more technical and skill driven as well as paying attention that counts than to say that Gimli killed more orcs than Legolas, so berserkers should be higher dps than rangers. Parses serve more to place emphasis on who is being lazy or needs gear/AA improvements than to define what class is supposed to be king turd on top of poop mountain.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, casters are blowing away melee despite all of these "disadvantages" that you are dreaming up.

Zerker kills light blues soooo much better than rogues.... you showed pure ignorance with this one post. Look up decapitate. ALL of your hits trigger it (not just backstabs) and it works on ALL mob types (not just humanoid). Rogue positioning issues easily equal the inconvenience that zerker discipline debuffs cause, and while I do enjoy shroud of stealth, to say that collection tasks should be a factor in class balance.... I'm sorry but I can't take you seriously anymore.

Again to completely destroy your argument, I took a brand new level 100 mage to max AA in just over a week. Solo. At level 100. Over 10,000 AA. I'll eat my socks if you prove to me a rogue can outpace that. I'm actually laughing pretty hard right now.

All of our hits do not trigger decapitate, just an FYI. Though, not disagreeing with the other stuff you said.

Decap works with axe throwing and rampage. Thus you can really mow some light blues down enmass.

Shadow of Luclin - belly caster and wild ramps. Also immune to /autofire.

60*24*7=10080

Wow, you soloed the equivalent of an AA per minute, for every minute, of every day, for a week.

Seems legit.

Considering it took me about 30 minutes to get 200 aa, sure.. the math works nicely. That includes factoring in breaks and sleep.

Lets just say I've already made some mages either very nervous or very curious.

When I log into a new beta, it takes me roughly 10080 minutes just to re-buy my AA's.

That doesn't factor in breaks or sleep.

Even if I believe you.... which I dont in the least. Then you must be godly skilled and we should bow down... In fact you must be the ROI of Mages...

But, the reality is that raid game is no longer designed around ROI, nor is group game designed around the ROI of mages.

There are currently 33 out of 212 Level 100 Rogue Profiles at within 75 AAs of Max. 15%
There are currently 8 out of 240 Level 100 Mage Profiles within 75 AAs of Max 3%

Guess you got a lot of training to do.

Using AA counts as an argument against DPS and solo-ability. LOLOLOL

He is using beam kiting, which was deemed an exploit of sorts by SOE when wizards got nerfed back in Faydwer doing it.

It can not be counted since it was already nerfed on other classes.

And people wonder where nerfs come from. Tinyfeet, you are doing the mage community zero service by posting that.

He destroyed his own argument saying the word solo and rogue/zerker in the same sentence. Using magelo to use any comparison is meaningless since not everyone is required to update it. Whle obviously forgetting risk vs reward. While forgetting that w/out upgrade current killing light blue con with over 4k aa warrants about 1 aa per ~15 kills. Sorry but any caster would destroy those mobs just as quick in a few casts , without a merc assuming they have half a clue with far less risk...


As to the whole earlier mitigation topic. Melee dps (non-tank pure dps and hybrid) do not take those hits as well as some may think. I've mentioned it in a different post but it is only part of the problem... I'll give the I don't know enough about mages/pets, don't pretend to think you know enough about non-tank melee as it's apparent we're both a bit off.

Silence , even some melee classes suffer (tools pure melee are balanced lol.. with.) and no one suffers long enough for it to matter for an entire event (can't think of one event this expansion so sounds pretty hypothetical..) otherwise the least of anyone's problems would be dps, I'll be more worried about heals landing on tanks....

As for pathing... you say you are in melee range, just how bad is that pathing at that distance? ( I remember days when pet pathing would pull an entire zone, but w/ aa's/clickies I don't remember many complaining much about it in the past 7 years..) If just fear alone is you're argument (bg1 i take it...) how often is your pet being feared in an event that lasts under 3-4 minutes? no aa's/clickies to remedy this?