Why play a rogue over a monk?

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by TheBlueSkySystem, Jun 17, 2020.

  1. TheBlueSkySystem New Member

    Let's look at this logically through the expansions on a TLP:

    Monk - Amazing fist damage, no need for weapons, great puller, great survivability, no positioning required.
    Rogue - Decent damage, low survivability, need to be geared to the 9s to even attempt to compete, have to constantly position to even attempt to dps.

    Monk - Fists still great, no need for weapons, epic takes them to a new level, great just got better
    Rogue - Epic is great but isn't enough to catch up, still need to be top geared to compete with group geared monks

    Monk - Best dps in the expansion, itemization is great, still in a great spot
    Rogue - Things are better, get the dagger off Vul you'll be better than a group geared monk, not the best dps in the expac but getting closer to being competitive

    Monk - Pretty much the same as Velious with some AA. Not much changes.
    Rogue - See above. They do gain some survivability.

    Both pretty decently competitive. Things finally even out.

    Monks - Lol, jk. They get a stun proc, can solo bosses with riposte disc, and become even more "facemelty" than they already were. Parses become monk, monk, monk, monk, monk, <insert everyone else>
    Rogues - Triple backstab is cool, still need to position to do 3/5 the damage of a well geared monk, bs damage tied to dagger damage is starting to hurt as higher % of damage comes from BS, needed for a few raids.

    Post GoD:
    See GoD. Same thing. Monks and Zerkers basically dominate parses with 0 positioning requirements or drawbacks. Monks have massive survivability bonuses, can tank better than the zerker or rogue, and are generally the best melee dps hands down for 10 more expacs.

    What am I doing here? Nothing. I'm just pointing out differences in a class. I'm not advocating any negative changes this time because I got in trouble before. Would I be upset by nerfs to the monk? No. Not in the least. Am I advocating for them to be nerfed? No. I would hate for that to happen.

    So what do I want to happen? Changes. No negative implication. Just changes. Monk (and zerkers once they come out) shouldn't be the only reasonable choice of melee DPS for the foreseeable life of a TLP. There shouldn't be a glimmer of hope in PoP then a massive correction in GoD back to the dark ages.

    Cue the zero fact based super Zen comments of the fist swinging mafia. Bring me your salt. Someday there will be positive changes (hint: TOTALLY NOT NERFS) implemented to bring balance to the force.
  2. Kiaro Augur

    You'll get all the gear to yourself. Meanwhile Monks are sharing with Beastlords and you should hear the wails of agony they see a BST pickup those uber weapons from Time.
    Demondred likes this.
  3. HoodenShuklak Augur

    The proof is in the pudding... rogues are far less common. At the end of the day they are both for dps primarily and they're relatively competitive, but rogue has none of everything else.

    They were designed around a game that made corpse runs important which was arguably their greatest utility.
    Demondred likes this.
  4. feigntrain Elder

  5. Monstarz New Member

  6. Kiaro Augur

    Monks have seen repeated buffs to their melee capability meanwhile Rogues in classic are still using the same weapons that existed back in well, classic.

    To put it another way Monks are using weapons from Planes of Power in classic.
  7. Remedial New Member

    I would honestly love for rogues to become more bard-esque but instead of songs they get poisons. I could see reduced ability but more reliable slows to start. We already get weapons that do a lot of this, they are just super unreliable.
  8. Risiko Augur

    Rogue is a very specialized class and play style.

    If your only reason to play it is based on DPS, then you are choosing rogue for the wrong reason.
    Wesleypipes77 likes this.
  9. Tierdal Augur

    lol. good luck.
  10. Raurk Zorander Journeyman

    Rogues don't have to pull!
    ajschliewe and Chopsuey like this.
  11. Kodachi Elder

    As someone whose mained a rogue for 97% of their time playing EQ both original and tlp... don't. Having your dps cut in half because people are flipping a mob around never stops. I've never truly cared about rogues doing more dps, just more dps from the front.
  12. Nuttmeg Augur

    Not sure how choosing a rogue, a pure dps class, when you only want to dps should be a "wrong reason".
  13. Tierdal Augur

    rogue is a utility class - sneak/hide for corpse pulling
  14. WaitingforMoreEQ WaitingforTBC

    Because despite what people say Rogues are actually much better sustained DPS once you get to SoV.
  15. Tierdal Augur

    vs monk? lollollll

    what makes you think a manaless class like monk doesn't also have sustain?
  16. TheBlueSkySystem New Member

    For those of you playing the home game, here's what we got:

    - Don't play a rogue
    - Monks have to pull so they should do vastly more dps
    - Rogues have a near useless utility (CR in a game that obsoleted CR) so they should be vastly less dps
    - Rogues aren't solely a dps class so they should do vastly less dps

    Ones I'm still waiting on:

    - You're not doing it right, my guild had all rogues top the parse in classic
    - If you don't like the game then leave
    - You're just jealous
    - Why are you always trying to bring other classes down?
  17. WaitingforMoreEQ WaitingforTBC

    Because i run Gamparse and actually look at the details. Monks do less damage then Rogues. The only reason you think monks do more damage then Rogues is because they have better Burst discs. But you're only using these discs 5% of the time. For the other 95% of the time Rogues are doing significantly more damage damage then Monks.
    ajschliewe likes this.
  18. Laronk Augur

    I know you're just listing junk answers but a lot of the time unless you really need to split a rogue pulls fine =)
  19. ajschliewe Lorekeeper

    I loved playing a rogue on Phinny. Part of it is lack of education by the rest of the players. Once we get SoS, we are better scouts than monks. But everyone will say, "go have a monk check it out." instead of a rogue. Will rogues ever match dps with monks, probably not, but we are a very close 2nd. But that has to do with the backstab damage where with i believe it is TSS, the backstab damage does not increase on our daggers as its normal damage increases.
  20. Tucoh Augur

    Another problem with rogues in classic is that someone who chooses one is probably daft or new, so frequently they'll be outclassed even beyond what they should be on paper. I know I know, not everyone who chooses a class with little upside is a potato, but generally if you make such a bad decision on class choice it's probably a habit you've developed.

    I was running a great group the other day in SolA and we had room for one. A rogue showed up and asked for an invite. We were mostly spawn starved so it didn't really matter and I figured I'd give him a shot, but told my group I was hesitant to invite rogues because of the above reason.

    Dude never even got to camp. He died twice falling in the lava and then logged off.